How to locally sync an iPhone with OS X Mavericks? iCloud is NOT an option.

I only need to answer the question if the basic premise is correct. Sync does not "need two sources". It needs two or more data stores that are kept in sync ("up to date" in Apple speak) by some mechanism. It can be peer to peer like USB, or it can be multiple source like webdav protocol. You may have learned a definition of "sync" on some course, but it is a very narrow one and not generally understood as such.

wiredancer wrote:

Apple local sync worked perfectly for me for so many years. never had any problems.

Good

What do you want to do now that is gone (other than complain)

peter_watt wrote:

I only need to answer the question if the basic premise is correct. Sync does not "need two sources". It needs two or more data stores that are kept in sync

OK

It doesn't need "two data sources"

But it does need "two or more data stores"

Semantics aside the same question applies., where are these "two or more data stores" that are being sync'd.

I think it is time that you researched how a DAV system (like iCloud) actually works.

What is the difference between two or more data stores and two (or more) data sources, it eludes me?

Csound1 wrote:

peter_watt wrote:

I only need to answer the question if the basic premise is correct. Sync does not "need two sources". It needs two or more data stores that are kept in sync

OK

It doesn't need "two data sources"

But it does need "two or more data stores"

Semantics aside the same question applies., where are these "two or more data stores" that are being sync'd.

I think it is time that you researched how a DAV system (like iCloud) actually works.

What is the difference between two or more data stores and two (or more) data sources, it eludes me?

Dunno, you introduced the concept of two sources, not us.

OK on your definition, the multiple data stores (sources) I synchronise using icloud webdav protocol are:-

- icloud database in the Apple data center in USA,

- my Macbook contacts and cal,

- my ipad contacts and cal,

- my Samsung phone contacts and cal (using SmoothSYNC app - the clue being in the name)

When not connected these mobile data stores are still there, fully functional until reconnected to iCloud at which point they all sync. iCloud is a synchronizing protocol. The data in the devices is not a cache, in that it will activate transactions.

Jeez, even TopSteve agrees with me!

Of course they are (the system would be a lot less functional if you couldn't use it without internet), the content from the server is stored in a local cache (a copy of the server data) expressly to allow you to see your data as it was when you disconnected from the server. This is basic stuff.

But the question still has not been addressed. In your version, where is the other (or others) data source (s) that iCloud is syncing with.

Smooth sync (which I know very well) is a client, not a server. It receives a copy of the iCloud data, just like every other client. The DAV server in Smoothsync sends new data to the server, and after a short delay the server updates, as do the clients. Still no sync has happened, just new data that overwrites old data. Data deletion and data entry is what happens, there was no 'sync' as no data was ever compared.

Almost all of the remedies for a true sync system will make an iCloud issue worse rather than better, read some of the problems users have created by pretending that they are dealing with a client to client compare and match sync system when they are not.

As always the actual remedies are so simple that they get overlooked in the panic.

If we are all being as pedantic as Csound1 about "source(s)" then the first source of any address in my address book is me!!! Csound1 has sead in the past that detailed explantions should be keep the the devlopers forums and I agree.

All that relay matters here is that a persion can see the same data on any of that persions devices and detailed explantons of sync or server/client client/client ect is not the point. The point is there was a way of attriving this visablity of data that did not require iCloud and this thread should be about that. Not about witch is better iCloud or Local or what is the right terminology.

We now know of a number of ways of doing this. What we should be talking about is whitch way is the best in witch situation and if there are any new ways of doing this we should share with each other.

TopSteve wrote:

If we are all being as pedantic as Csound1 about "source(s)" then the first source of any address in my address book is me!!!

And you are not iCloud compatible, please stay (at least) in the realm of things that can subscribe to iCloud.

peter_watt wrote:

Csound1 wrote:

peter_watt wrote:

I only need to answer the question if the basic premise is correct. Sync does not "need two sources". It needs two or more data stores that are kept in sync

OK

It doesn't need "two data sources"

But it does need "two or more data stores"

Semantics aside the same question applies., where are these "two or more data stores" that are being sync'd.

I think it is time that you researched how a DAV system (like iCloud) actually works.

What is the difference between two or more data stores and two (or more) data sources, it eludes me?

Dunno, you introduced the concept of two sources, not us.

Perhaps you could link to that.

Csound1 wrote:

TopSteve wrote:

If we are all being as pedantic as Csound1 about "source(s)" then the first source of any address in my address book is me!!!

And you are not iCloud compatible, please stay (at least) in the realm of things that can subscribe to iCloud.

but the thread is about when "....iCloud is not an option" so being "not iCloud compatible" is in a realm that is appropriate.

This thread is not your personal property. Don't tell me how to reply.

Csound1 (or others), maybe you can help me out then, since you seem to understand how sync works. I've been trying to understand this for a while. Are there references you could point me to? or explain?

On a sync, how does one device know which entry needs to be updated on the other device? How does it do that? (compare all the entries? dump all the entries to the other device and let it sort it out? ...)

It used to be that when an entry was modified, that entry was flagged. Next time it was time for sync, the sync would occur, and the flag would be cleared. Obviously, when you wanted to then sync with another device, the flag would already be cleared, and no sync would occur, and this was a problem. So that's why every once in a while you had to compare the entire database and update accordingly.

But I really don't know how CalDAV, CardDAV and all the more modern protocols work.

It's clear to me, that if there is any hope to do this correctly, all devices need to sync to single centralized place. But it's still not clear to me how even in that case the server (be it iCloud or OS X server, or even a mac at the end of a USB cable) can keep track of which devices still need to be updated.

Any pointers would be appreciated.

thanks.

iCloud is not a sync system (except for bookmarks) it is a remote server on which you can store certain types of data (primarily Contacts and Calendars). Any client (iPhone/iPad/Mac/PC etc) can then receive a copy of that same data and some clients can push data to the iCloud server for the purpose of updating the data stored there.

There is never a sync, merely the deletion and addition of data.

As there is only 1 source of data for an iCloud client (iCloud) they all get the same thing. Some can also display data from other online systems (eg: Google) but it remains seperate from the iCloud data, even if you choose to look at all the accounts combined.

Csound1 wrote:

Perhaps you could link to that.

Page 203 204 205 full of incorrect statements.

like

"iCloud is not a sync system (except for bookmarks) it is a remote server on which you can store certain types of data (primarily Contacts and Calendars). Any client (iPhone/iPad/Mac/PC etc) can then receive a copy of that same data and some clients can push data to the iCloud server for the purpose of updating the data stored there.

There is never a sync, merely the deletion and addition of data."

Sorry mate but it is plain wrong.

Then we will disagree (nice job on quoting from a later post by the way)

Please (once more) as you are the expert will you explain how iCloud works, this is the third time asking but you have yet to tell us.

Or don't you know?

I understand the distinction you are making between a sync, where a record might be modified, to a system where records are only either deleted or added to in their entirety.

But I still don't understand how a particular record that is modified by one client and pushed to the server, then gets pushed to another client at perhaps a later time when that other client is back online. Does the server keep a list of clients and track which ones still need to be updated? And does it keep track which records have been sent to the client or does it push the entire database every time?