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  • Matt Schultz Level 1 Level 1 (55 points)

    James Richards wrote:

     

    FWIW I set up the Baïkal sever option soon after Barney-15E posted his User Tip, and it's been running seamlessly but for one trivial (but irritating at the time)!glitch since then.

     

    I know it takes a bit of work to set up,..............

    Baïkal

    Current version: 0.2.6

     

    This is far from released software (yet). We thought about looking at this but determined that it was too risky to bet our business operations on beta sofware, not even a 0.3 release. Therefore, we did not consider Baikal a qualified alternative at this time.

     

    Watching with interest, however... and, impressed with your computer skills!

  • snozdop Level 5 Level 5 (5,800 points)

    As both Android and Windows phone don't support local syncing natively, what will you choose?

    I'm not sure where you're getting this information but there are numerous ways to sync an Android phone's contacts and calendar with Outlook.

     

    Matt, please learn to read and understand. I clearly said they "don't support local syncing natively".

    That means there is no way to sync locally built-in to the operating system. That is true.

     

    You cannot simply go and buy an alternative phone and be sure it will be able to sync locally out-of-the-box. Some might come with manufacturer supplied software, some might require additional third-party (possibly paid) software.

     

    All of the products you mention are third-party - not native solutions. Have you actually read the reviews of "Android Sync" - clearly not a product to be trusted with your data.

     

    I am aware that some manufacturers and third-party solutions exist. But third-party products aren't always compatible, are often abandoned by their developers. Manufacturer solutions only work with that brand of phone. If you switch devices you're back to trying to find another solution that happens to work reliably with your particular handset.

  • snozdop Level 5 Level 5 (5,800 points)

    Drew Reece wrote:

     

    Matt is right, for example Samsung phones use Kies which syncs contacts & calendars across multiple platforms via USB.

    Windows phone 8 has 3rd party options for USB sync, whilst not 'native' at least users have a choice, unlike Mavericks users.

     

    Please learn to read. "Kies" is not native. "3rd party options" are not native. Geez...

  • snozdop Level 5 Level 5 (5,800 points)

    If people like "snozdop" would at least write accurate posts, that would help. but it looks like they haven't a clue. I have a few friends that sync Samsung devices locally no problem, so I guess it must be possible.

     

    Yet another person who obviously cannot read. What I posted is 100% accurate. Here's what I wrote again:

     

    both Android and Windows phone don't support local syncing natively

     

    Read it (carefully), understand it (may take a while, I know), and then tell me where even the slightest bit of inaccuracy is.

  • Matt Schultz Level 1 Level 1 (55 points)

    snozdop wrote:

     

    As both Android and Windows phone don't support local syncing natively, what will you choose?

    I'm not sure where you're getting this information but there are numerous ways to sync an Android phone's contacts and calendar with Outlook.

     

    Matt, please learn to read and understand. I clearly said they "don't support local syncing natively".

    That means there is no way to sync locally built-in to the operating system. That is true.

     

    You cannot simply go and buy an alternative phone and be sure it will be able to sync locally out-of-the-box. Some might come with manufacturer supplied software, some might require additional third-party (possibly paid) software.

     

    All of the products you mention are third-party - not native solutions. Have you actually read the reviews of "Android Sync" - clearly not a product to be trusted with your data.

     

    I am aware that some manufacturers and third-party solutions exist. But third-party products aren't always compatible, are often abandoned by their developers. Manufacturer solutions only work with that brand of phone. If you switch devices you're back to trying to find another solution that happens to work reliably with your particular handset.

  • Matt Schultz Level 1 Level 1 (55 points)

    Matt Schultz wrote:

     

    snozdop wrote:

     

    As both Android and Windows phone don't support local syncing natively, what will you choose?

    I'm not sure where you're getting this information but there are numerous ways to sync an Android phone's contacts and calendar with Outlook.

     

    Matt, please learn to read and understand. I clearly said they "don't support local syncing natively".

    That means there is no way to sync locally built-in to the operating system. That is true.

     

    You cannot simply go and buy an alternative phone and be sure it will be able to sync locally out-of-the-box. Some might come with manufacturer supplied software, some might require additional third-party (possibly paid) software.

     

    All of the products you mention are third-party - not native solutions.

    Sorry - Safari crashed & I lost all my comments.

     

    I understand but I find the "native" vs 3rd party debate pointless (apologies), i.e., there's been better file managers than Finder for years. There are better 3rd party browsers than Safari (I need to start using them more). Like most in business, I choose Excel over Numbers almost every time.

     

    Just because something is "native" doesn't make it any better.

     

    Plus, since iCloud is external, I don't even consider it a native method of synching.

     

    3rd party solutions to Mavericks' deprecation will need to be used, so IMHO, there's no logical purpose in stressing native vs non-native. It's meaningless to 99% of the folks looking for a solution.

     

    My 2¢. Have a great weekend!

  • Drew Reece Level 5 Level 5 (5,035 points)

    snozdop wrote:

     

    Drew Reece wrote:

     

    Windows phone 8 has 3rd party options for USB sync, whilst not 'native' at least users have a choice, unlike Mavericks users.

     

    Please learn to read. "Kies" is not native. "3rd party options" are not native. Geez...

     

    So your argument is that 3rd parties cannot be trusted, so we should rely on companies that make 'native' solutions. That is worked out really well for us with Apple!

     

    'Native' is a red herring when there are multiple alternative vendors supporting the features we want, non Apple devices also allow non-proprietary ways to connect a device and edit it's contents (like mounting a device as a USB mass storage device).

     

    Apple on the other hand - proprietary USB protocols, no alternative 3rd party sync clients…

     

    If 'native' syncing is really the best solution why are Apple removing thier native solution?

  • Csound1 Level 8 Level 8 (42,355 points)

    Why don't you ask them, we don't know, so tend to offer opinion rather than fact, or not.

  • Drew Reece Level 5 Level 5 (5,035 points)

    Csound1 wrote:

     

    Why don't you ask them, we don't know, so tend to offer opinion rather than fact, or not.

    I'm not the one claiming 'a native solution is the only one to trust'.

  • Csound1 Level 8 Level 8 (42,355 points)

    Drew Reece wrote:

     

    Csound1 wrote:

     

    Why don't you ask them, we don't know, so tend to offer opinion rather than fact, or not.

    Drew Reece wrote:

     

    If 'native' syncing is really the best solution why are Apple removing thier native solution?

    That's the question you asked, and you should ask Apple for the answer, not us.

     

    Or speculate, it's up to you.

  • Matt Schultz Level 1 Level 1 (55 points)

    That's an absurd retort, it's like saying "I know you are but what am I?"

     

    The man has a valid & logical point. Rather than adolescent deflection, either address the debate or back away.

  • James Richards Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)

    Yes. I can see the issue from a business perspective, plus there is the question of the cost of deploying the solution among a number of users.

     

    If I were starting from now, I'd go for ownCloud myself as being rather more developed, and probably easier to set up than Baïkal. If money were no object (and if I weren't cheesed off with Apple) I might go for Mavericks Server as being more likey to be kept up to date with any other changes in the OS (maybe!). OTOH both Baïkal and ownCloud use industry standard utilities and the standard Apache and PHP stuff which comes preinstalled on the Mac.

     

    My remaining workflow issue is that with both calendars and contacts I used to use the USB sync to keep all calendars and contacts in sync between iPhone and Mac, and then Googles CalDAV to sync selected calendars and into Google Calendar (and selected contact groups via a third party Utility). Now I am relying on CalDAV for my syncing, I have to use Google to keep the Google calendars in sync between my iPhone and my Mac, because I also want that infomation on Google.  So I can't keep the iPhone and Mac in sync with each other when I've got no internet access.

  • Csound1 Level 8 Level 8 (42,355 points)

    Then why don't you answer his question?

  • snozdop Level 5 Level 5 (5,800 points)

    So your argument is that 3rd parties cannot be trusted

     

    Nope. Not only can you not read, you also make things up!! I never said "3rd parties cannot be trusted" - I said that based on the reviews of "Android Sync" it seems that particular product should not be trusted with your data.

     

    If 'native' syncing is really the best solution why are Apple removing thier native solution?

     

    They're not removing native syncing are they? They've just changed the method offered. Instead of offering local syncing via USB natively, they now offer syncing to the 'cloud' natively. Both methods are native to iOS - it's just that one has superceded the other - presumably because Apple believes it to be better.

  • snozdop Level 5 Level 5 (5,800 points)

    Just because something is "native" doesn't make it any better.

     

    That's true in many cases - but in a such a closed environment as iOS, the developer of the OS has access to private API's and has a much deeper understanding of how things work than any third-party developer ever will.

     

    Fact of the matter is, Apple can do things with iOS that no third-party developer ever can. Nobody else can offer such deep integration with iOS as Apple does with iCloud for instance. Every potential third-party solution is entirely dependent on the public API's Apple makes available to developers and the submission rules of the AppStore.

     

    There are so many restrictions on third-party developers on iOS that I'm not even sure a third-party USB sync solution is even possible without j@ilbreaking. A quick browse of the iOS Developer Documentation doesn't reveal any public API's for communicating over the USB port.

     

    Plus, since iCloud is external, I don't even consider it a native method of synching.

     

    iCloud is very deeply integrated into iOS (and OS X). There is nothing to install and there are numerous iCloud API's built-in to iOS. You can't get much more native than that...