Currently Being ModeratedOct 28, 2013 2:42 AM (in response to KiltedGreen)
This constantly updated list of features is partially wrong. I posted a correction earlier but it seems to have been lost:
* All documents open at 125%. Zoom level is retained after saving with the document.
I was waiting to check that as other users said the opposite.
* Alignment guides can be enabled in Preferences on the General tab
Can you show me the preference for drag out guides (not object to object guides)
* Shapes can be masked with Ovals, Arrows, Stars and more (Format > Image > Mask with Shape > ...)
I asked but didn't see a response. I may have missed it. I will fix it.
* Accented characters are available in both headers and footers (type the character, hold and choose the one you want)
Again you probably are right but I had a contrary report.
* Word documents can be exported to iCloud ( File > Export > Word > Next ... then choose iCloud from the popup menu)
Now, the deleted feature of "Open Pages '08 documents" is perhaps a bit odd. Did Pages '09 open documents from Pages '06 or whatever was before that?
Some Users are going straight from Pages '08 to Pages 5 and there is no longer a Pages '09 available to do the intermediate conversion. So still a fact. Up until now all systems supported both Pages '08 and Pages '09 possibly even Pages '06. Pages 5 can only be installed on Maverick to my knowledge.
Listing 'Removed - sync with iOS6' is a bit odd too. You 'sync' with iCloud not an OS version. Maybe this needs clarifying.
I believe the Pages > iCloud version is not compatible with iOS6 and some people can't upgrade to iOS7. The whole thing is an immense muddle between Pre Maverick, Maverick, iCloud, iOS6, iOS7 and Pages Online for Non-Maverick users. Can anyone plot out what actually works where?
Also, "New file format not backwardly compatibile" is true. This is invariably true of any piece of software after a certain time. To take a crass example, Word 1 can't open Word 2003 documents. At some point you need to transfer older documents to a new format to continue working and this has been the way with almost everything over the years. Where the problem lies of course is that Pages 5 converts your Pages '09 documents silently with no option of reversion.
I'l try and think of a better, but still brief way of describing how any Pages 5 file even saved back to Pages '09 is still not a Pages '09 file. It lacks all the Pages '09 structure and thus you can't collaborate or pass back and forth files.
The list of features missing in Pages 5 is bad enough without reprinting an incorrect list over and over and over. If it is to have value it needs to be correct.
I correct when and where there is a documented clarification. You are not the only one claiming it is or isn't a problem.
If you want a full and accurate list it helps if you clearly check and document the details and use the correct names for features. I am spending a lot of time trying to determine if what is being said is for the right feature or not.
PS This • is a bullet, not this *. When I see that I worry how well the user knows their software.
Currently Being ModeratedOct 28, 2013 3:33 AM (in response to PeterBreis0807)
Except you're the one who's completely off. So sure are you but you're just slapping yourself in the face here.
I'm not a programmer. I'm a HEAVY Pages user, though your fickle difference capitalizing a letter hardly impresses me. This application is written for everyone, not just you. I've never programmed a thing in my life, but I've used a Mac since 1989, and I understand how Apple works. You seem to have platform confusion here.
you've gone back and forth between different motives here. I'm convinced you're just flaming. Say what you will. The writing's on the wall.
For the last time, nobody forced you or anyone else to upgrade. Stick with 4.3 until the smoke clears, and I'm 99% sure you'll be eating your words. I lived through many Apple transitions, and they ALWAYS come back around. You're just giving complainers a place to excercise their fingers here.
enough. you're wasting my time. This whole thread is a flame session, and you've even felt the need to go Apple bashing on other threads too. It doesn't serve anyone.
yeah, sure. in this case, I was the lightning rod, and broke none of the rules, did I.
It's not your tone that bothers me, but that you started off being objective and wound up speculating and badmouthing developers who are working hard to make things better. This is a x.0 release as I've said many times, and deserves patience and open-minds, not bashing and jumping to conclusions. Apple isn't trying to take things away from people. This is a rewrite and needs time. I'm not sure how many different ways I can state that. good lord.
I get what's going on in your head but don't blame me if I don't agree.
You are confused because not much of what you are "sure" of is real.
It wasn't me that had your post/s removed. Apple's moderators struck for their own reasons.
I never said my list was what you said it was. That was you saying it.
The list just exists to gather details on the changes in Pages 5.
By developers I think you mean Apple. Not all developers are Apple, nor behave like Apple. Apple ≠ First Best Friend, and does what it wants, including taking things away from people. I don't know how many times it has to do it before you catch on.
New is not necessarily better. Pages 5 is just the latest example.
You seem to be a programmer and not a User and are taking the criticism from users personally.
Possibly you are a Pages user, but not a Pages User. All the Pages Users here get the significant difference.
If you were a real Pages User you would appreciate the significance of damaging people's work, pushing an inferior version* on Pages Users, making it difficult to revert documents, making it difficult to switch back to a working version of Pages, removing the superior version from the market and dead-ending all work for that application.
All which was easily avoidable and has now put all Pages Users between a rock and a hard place.
* Without warning.
Currently Being ModeratedOct 28, 2013 3:51 AM (in response to robogobo)
I doubt you are a HEAVY Pages user, but in your own mind you are sure of that. Like everything else.
I appear to have been an Apple customer longer than you. Given how long you have been a user I am absolutely amazed at some of the nonsense you spout.
Apple does come around, from crises of its own making, but always at our expense.
It is really tiring talking to you.
End of conversation.
Currently Being ModeratedOct 28, 2013 4:03 AM (in response to PeterBreis0807)
Great. It's comical how you're the one making all the assumptions about me, and yet you accuse me of being overly sure of myself. Comical. I've been a user long enough to see the big picture. You choose to focus on the short term negatives. Good luck with that.
Currently Being ModeratedOct 28, 2013 4:20 AM (in response to PeterBreis0807)
Peter - I hope you're actually checking your list personally before submitting it repeatedly. When such a list is almost the basis of the thread and you are the one putting your name on it I'd either check yourself or put "unconfirmed" next to it.
* Zoom is saved with the document. It's quick and easy to verify. Try it.
* I said alignment guides and that's all I meant. In your list you didn't specify "drag out guides" and as you say they no longer appear to exist. Maybe this requires separate entries.
* Non rectangular shapes can be used as a mask. It's quick and easy to verify. Try it.
* Accented characters are available in headers and footers. It's quick and easy to verify. Try it.
It is a problem when a user has not upgraded software for years and then the latest version can't open previous files. It will invariably happen at some point but I think two releases back is a bit unfair. Apple should perhaps make Pages '09 available free so that at least user's could use it to transfer their documents to Pages 5.
The iCloud issues are really do do with the fact that iOS 5 and Lion had iCloud but ithe implementation was half baked - all that dragging files out of iTunes to sync with iWork! I didn't bother getting Pages on my iPad 1 until Mountain Lion was released. One of the big improvements abut Pages 5 is that it is now file compatibile between OS X and iOS which is not an issue for some posters here but is really useful to me as I have no laptop and it's much better than with iOS6/OS X 10.8. What has happened, for now to Pages on OS X to achieve that is seriously problematic though.
I don't need to be told what a bullet is thank you, I just didn't bother to use it on here. Speculating on how well I know my software based on such 'evidence' is irrelevant and presumptious. I can tell that I'm a lightweight user of Pages compared to some on this thread but know it well enough to point out what I've said and that's sufficient.
Currently Being ModeratedOct 28, 2013 4:24 AM (in response to robogobo)
For the last time, nobody forced you or anyone else to upgrade.
It is true that no one literally twisted my arm to upgrade. However, Apple warned neither of functionality loss, nor of overwriting earlier versions (instead of copying them with an "upgraded" designation) as is done fairly standardly, nor was "Pages 5.0" labeled a "beta" as they have done with the web-apps. So, for folks who have been editing an iCloud-stored file both with their iOS 6.x and OSX Pages 4.3, there was no warning that upgrading the iOS Pages will lead to a file structure change, which will force the need to upgrade the OSX Pages, which will lead to formatting and even some content loss in the documents. At the very least, this has caused many a user, User and USER considerable loss in time and trust: since the functionality of Pages 4.3 that no longer exists in Pages 5.0, we have but your and Joey's words of assurance that "all will be well."
So, for my own part, I shall never again trust Apple to any upgrade. Perhaps this was a "straw," but it certainly broke more than one camel's back.
For my own part, I'll stick to factual feature gain/loss/change documenting.
Currently Being ModeratedOct 28, 2013 4:41 AM (in response to Tristan Hubsch)
I hear you, Tristan. I think you have a good point and Apple should have provided a warning before the change. I think though, that they're taking for granted people back up with Time Machine, since the old "save as" model has been superseded. It's their mistake though, for sure.
Thanks for stating the issue so clearly.
Currently Being ModeratedOct 28, 2013 5:00 AM (in response to KiltedGreen)
I'm sorry Kiltedgreen
I did the changes to my master copy and thought it had got posted but there was a forum outage and maybe it fell in the cracks. You are still looking at an older copy.
The issue with iOS6 is that there is also an older version of Pages on that I believe. It gets very complicated and I haven't enough devices running enough OSes and platforms to test them all.
Can someone clarify what is happening with Character and List Styles I still have question marks against them which means I didn't get an answer to my previous questions.
Also the drag out rules from rulers question is still unanswered.
Lastly can someone inset a multi-column Layout Break and look for Before, After and side margin settings.
Updated Check List
New Pages 5 added, removed or altered features:
+ Right to Left text
+ Single model templates. No More Word Processing/Layout templates
+ Share outside iCloud
+ Phonetic Guide for Chinese & Japanese
+ Custom Template names can be changed inside the Template Chooser by right clicking
+ Custom Templates can be deleted inside the Template Chooser by right clicking
+ Text language is detected automatically
+ Unite/Subtract overlapping Textboxes
+ Unite/Subtract overlapping Shapes
+ Extra Shadow effects
+ Double click to mask image
+ Instant Alpha target zoom
+ 16 more languages
+ Multiple T.O.C. and can have them for each section
Select non-contiguous text
Drag reorganize pages
Select all instances of a Style
Retain zoom level of document
Media Inspector links to iPhoto library on external drive
Media Inspector links to Aperture Library
Drag and Drop VCards
Default Start Up page
Drag out Vertical (and Horizontal) Alignment Guides
Style Function key shortcuts
Hyperlinks to external documents
Images within Tables
Mathtype Equations/Formulae within Tables (and other Objects?)
Grapher Equations/Formulae within Tables (and other Objects?)
Clean Import of older .pages formatting
Full User Guide (there is a short online guide missing many features)
Open Type features
Background Object selectable
Text to Tables
Tables to Text
Tables in Headers/Footers
Word export to iCloud
Export to .rtf
Import from .rtf
Multiple Comments view
T.O.C. clean numbering
Character Styles ?
List Styles ?
Selective formating in Character Styles
Insert File Name
Search in Media Browser
Bullet points in comments
Two up view
Paste and keep style
Find & Replace special characters eg paragraph returns
Auto-Dates on opening document
Speech to Text
Open Pages '08 documents
Headers in Tables
Sync with iOS6
Auto capitalise sentence start
Open .doc files
Roman Numeral Page Numbers
Character count including spaces
Import linked Numbers Charts
Styles including bulletted lists
Recent fonts at top of Font List
Page of Page Count at foot of Window
Full Screen background color
Font name matching between OSX and iOS
Copy/Paste from Pages '09 to Pages 5
Certain Fonts eg WingDings
Saving onto Windows server
Drag out inserted image to Finder.
↪ Pages '09 files saved from Pages 5 in Maverick are not protected by a simple name change eg (converted appended)
↪ Pages '09 files previewed on iPad via iCloud are irrevocably converted
↪ Update is missing for older installations, Apple is reportedly working on a solution via a redeemable code or update on their Support Download site
↪ Wrap methods have been cut back severely
↪ Documents reconverted back to Pages '09 lose all template information
↪ Language set under Edit > Spelling and Grammar > Show Spelling and Grammar now document wide
↪ Subscript/superscript text is now a convoluted route Gear > Advanced options > Baseline > Subscript/Superscript
↪ Headers and Footers appear to be multi-column
↪ Text is not wrapping in Footers
↪ New file format (but still .pages?) not backwardly compatible
↪ Page numbering method changed
↪ Custom Templates are now stored in ~/Library/Containers/com.apple.iWork.pages (a package)
↪ AppleScript Library for Pages 5 has changed with many classes and commands removed which indicates how the feature lists have been slashed
↪ Character Styles are in the Text Inspector under Bold, Italic etc
↪ Tabbing within Table cells appears to be inconsistent, tabbing internally with numbers.
↪ Drag and Drop text only works with .txt files now
↪ EndNote plugin is partially broken unable to cite in footnotes and problems with in-text numbering
↪ List options are now in a pop-down menu in the contextual Inspector
↪ .doc no longer supported, only .docx
↪ Text highlighting is now under Format > gear icon > Advanced Options > Character Fill Color > Color
↪ Mail Merge has changed. Some people are reporting links not working despite Merge is still in the Insert Menu
↪ Merging Table cells is now: select the cell/s > Format > Table > Merge
↪ Unmerge cells only undoes the above
↪ Table Borders is now: select the cell/s > Format > Table > Cell > click on triangle > choose
↪ Quicklook preview of Pages '09 files in Maverick is reportedly buggy
↪ Layout Breaks work differently. You select the paragraphs you want as an exception and then change the column numbers. Currently can't find how to set before and after spacing or margin inset btw This is a totally undocumented and hidden procedure.
↪ Word Count is now Menu > View > Show Word Count
Currently Being ModeratedOct 28, 2013 4:59 AM (in response to Tristan Hubsch)
Maybe nobody forced anyone to upgrade, but may I quote from the blurb:
Create gorgeous documents in minues with the all-new Pages for Mac word processor - featuring a stunning new design, new writing tools and improved performance."
Wouldn't that sway anyone to UPgrade? With emphasis on the word UP, when it should have been DOWNgrade.
Granted, they didn't say "new writing tools in addition to the existing ones".
Technically, even though it's a "word processor", it's a different app to the old Pages. Perhaps it should have been named differently as well.
Currently Being ModeratedOct 28, 2013 5:07 AM (in response to PeterBreis0807)
Thank you, Peter.
"Word export to iCloud" is still listed as removed when it works fine as detailed in my previous post.
"Can't open .doc files" is listed as being removed but I can open .doc files others have sent me in Pages 5 - and I mean .doc, not just .docx
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