QuickTime convert .avi to .mov with OS X Mavericks

Well, find a problem and here's 5 pages of active discussion over a week or so. I gather I'll chime in.

I have QT Pro and that seems to run some movies; i purchased a key a while ago and was able to use that version to do conversions of some formats in a save-as method; you can also do some basic edits (trim front and back or drag & drop .MOV's into one video making it a longer video). I think the newer QT had that capability.

Someone mentioned above that the QT loaded with Mavericks only plays 64bit formats. If that's the case, either the other formats evolve to 64 or some other workarounds are patched together. It's not likely they'll create some QT player to be backwards compatible. This does suck, but I noticed sometime ago that the 'free' version of QT player is so completely different from the paid version of QT pro that something is out of whack. I think this story is just not over. For those who used QT Pro and the QT player you will have noticed the discrapancies over the past few years. I hope they notice the thread here and I'm sure there's complaints elsewhere and maybe take heed and come up with some solution. But it will not be pretty b/c there are so many formats out there and they are all constantly changing.

As for complaining, well, that's part of finding a solution. I'm not running off to Windows and I'm not saying Apple is right. It does suck. It's a plot and we're all victims to it. And, oh yeah, I have an iPad 1 which is now basically a fancy paperweight since they stopped supporting that device. onward.........

The folks at Apple who can fix the issue do not read form. If you want it fixed, please report the issue:

http://www.apple.com/feedback/quicktime.html

I have reported the issue as a bug, and if we get everyone to report it also, maybe someone will care to fix it.

I've reported the bug at http://www.apple.com/feedback/quicktime.html. At least Apple has a quick and easy-to-use bug reporting system: it took less than a minute.

Sorry but… are we all going crazy? We customers MUST do what the company wants instead of the company doing what customers want/need? World is turning upside down and nobody told me… 😕

For example, my Canon G9 camera records in AVI format, my Panasonic plasma TV set reads AVI format via DLNA/media server, so why should I want to reencode all my videos to another format just because Apple wants me to do so? Or should I spend/throw away my money in expensive new gear just because Apple doesn't want to support formats that customers are already using A LOT?

I can understand why Apple doesn't want to support those formats, be it for technical reasons or commercial ones, but it should NOT ignore customers and allow at least a small opportunity for 3rd party codecs in AV Foundation.

Saluditos,

Ferrán.

Sorry but… are we all going crazy? We customers MUST do what the company wants instead of the company doing what customers want/need? World is turning upside down and nobody told me… 😕

For example, my Canon G9 camera records in AVI format, my Panasonic plasma TV set reads AVI format via DLNA/media server, so why should I want to reencode all my videos to another format just because Apple wants me to do so? Or should I spend/throw away my money in expensive new gear just because Apple doesn't want to support formats that customers are already using A LOT?

I can understand why Apple doesn't want to support those formats, be it for technical reasons or commercial ones, but it should NOT ignore customers and allow at least a small opportunity for 3rd party codecs in AV Foundation.

Your arguements might seem more convincing if

1) AVI was really a single A/V compression format,

2) The AVI file type was not still supported under Mavericks, and

3) Your Cannon G9 MJPEG/PCM files were not "as is" playback compatible with QT X v10.3 and QL under Mavericks.

I.e., For anyone else interested, try downloading and playing the following Canon G9 sample file in QT X v10.3 and QL preview under Mavericks:

MVI_1642.AVI

Jon Walker wrote:

1) AVI was really a single A/V compression format

AVI is not a compression format, but a container - very similar to MOV: it can contains different video or audio compressions.

The problem with AVI: it comes from Windows. And if you watch a video (for example at YouTube) and its source is AVI, then very often it is not synchronized (video/audio). This is why we used to love QuickTime.

Apart from this, I would be glad if we would stop to talk about QuickTime (QT): sorry for mention it again, but QuickTime is 32 bit and depreciated (and "QuickTime Player" on Mavericks is 64 bit and based on "AV Foundation).

If I read all these comments and the confusion about 32 / 64 bit, QuickTime / AV Foundations, video formats, containers (AVI, MOV)...

I am very much frustrated that Apple stopps QuickTime and is forcing all of us to use AV Foundation and MPEG4 / H264. QuickTime was a great idea. And many people just used Mac OS in the past because of QuickTime.

But if I read all these confusions, I think Apple is going the "correct" way: let's go to the future, simplify things, trash your old videos (and may be video recording systems) and go to the future: only one video format (MP4, H264).

By the way: how many people did post here? 20? 30? I know that Apple is watching this discussions.. if I would be a company and I would see that a.) only 0.01 procent of my customers complain and b.) even these customers do not understand the technical aspect...

Actually I think that more than 20,30 people complains about that and people at Apple know what they are doing... but what's their plan ??? They are playing PC's only user game... they must be laughing at the moment: "look the BRAND NEW OSX , not event able to play a divx or mkv... really a piece of S...". Most of the time I love what APPLE does. Not this time. And even if I admit that you're not wrong in the "got to the future approach" I don't see the silent app that will convert my video files when I sleep... this is a MISTAKE. (Sorry for my english, I'm french !)

AVI is not a compression format, but a container - very similar to MOV: it can contains different video or audio compressions.

The problem with AVI: it comes from Windows. And if you watch a video (for example at YouTube) and its source is AVI, then very often it is not synchronized (video/audio). This is why we used to love QuickTime.

That was the point I was trying to make by my first two lines in response to Ferrán's comments. The rest of my post was to simply point out that QT (both classic and new tech versions) still support the AVI file type and that the person to whom I was responding did not seem to have even tested the AVI files produced by his Canon G9 since the compression formats contained in the AVI file are actually compatible with both QT X v10.3 and QL under Mavericks—a point seemingly missed by most people posting to this particular forum. I'm still waiting to see if all the issues we are seeing are merely oversites on the part of the programmers, "bugs" which can be expected with any major software change, or deliberate programming changes made by Apple.

I am very much frustrated that Apple stopps QuickTime and is forcing all of us to use AV Foundation and MPEG4 / H264. QuickTime was a great idea. And many people just used Mac OS in the past because of QuickTime.

I am not really bothered to any major degree by either the AV Foundation or the QT Movie Modernizer software since I continue to use the QT 7 Pro app as my primary media player and "quickie" editing utility since 99.9 percent of my content is already H.264/AAC/AC3/Chaptered M4V files and all of my editing is done before muxing the content to the M4V container which avoids the AC3/DTS bugs which currently trickle down to QT 7 Pro under Mavericks. My only use for AVI and WMV is analyzing problems for others and trying to keep up, to some small degree, with the effects Apple changes have on third-party/non-native content.

But if I read all these confusions, I think Apple is going the "correct" way: let's go to the future, simplify things, trash your old videos (and may be video recording systems) and go to the future: only one video format (MP4, H264).

I agree that the highly scalable, muliti-purpose use of the MPEG-4 AVC compression format was a good choice and that is why I adopted it as my default format for my video library when the iPod 5th Gen device was first released. Since all of my library files are self-made, it made no sense to adopt a library format that was not also the Apple default format and one most likely to remain the Apple standard for the next decade at least. My only frustration is that I am constantly re-compressing the files to take advantage of features constantly being added (secondary surround sound audio tracks with increased quality, chapter markers, etc.), increased device display resolutions, and better profile/level combinatios that are more efficient and allow me to create the higher resolution files at the same or decreased data rates. Luckily I am retired and have plenty of time for these activities. At least they keep me busy or, as my wife likes to say, "off the streets and out of trouble."

By the way: how many people did post here? 20? 30? I know that Apple is watching this discussions.. if I would be a company and I would see that a.) only 0.01 procent of my customers complain and b.) even these customers do not understand the technical aspect...

I believe I counted over thirty different individuals posting here. As to Apple watching these discussion, that may be so. I doubt, however, that it will have much impact on Apple's long-rage game plan. As to complaining users/customers, I do not believe that most underderstand the difficulties associated with maintaining compatibility with the older file/compression types while trying to improve/keep up with the latest A/V software technologies and features, let alone the sometimes mutually exclussive differences in fixed-to-variable frame rate conversions with variable or fixed data rates with spatial and/or temporal synchronization problems in transport and/or program stream formats. While I confess I too would like to see some sort of an all-in-one, handles-everything-in-an-outstanding-manner media player, I would not like to be the programmer trying to create and then maintain such an app—especially with almost every user having his or her own idea as to what constitutes the best features to be included or which files/formats are to be given priority emphasis where a dichotomy exists. No, in the end I tend to agree with the idea that it may better to have a media player that only supports a relatively small collection of video file/compression types really well than have one that supports everything poorly. Of course, that is only one person's opinion and I expect there are a lot of people here who would disagree with this—and rather strongly at that. But then, expressing opinions is one of the things for which this forum is good.

pascal687 wrote:

1) Actually I think that more than 20,30 people complains about that and people at Apple know what they are doing... but what's their plan ???

More then 20, 30 people? Really? Okay: let's upgrade to 20... what? Thousand? Or even more? Apple might fall asleep? Compare this to millions (and more) of iOS customers which are just interested in cool iPhones and "social" media content.

I am an early Apple user, I started with Apple II (if anybody knows it, it was 1980 or something like that). Apple spend more than 20 years "without earning big money" for great features like QuickTime.

If your read the documentation and this discussion: the plan is to use MP4/H264 and to forget old features (like compatibility, quick & easy edit features and QuickTime VR aka panoramas). Or simple as this: Apple want iCloud and compatibility to iOS. This is furture, this brings money.

Jon Walker wrote:

...QT (both classic and new tech versions) still support the AVI file type...

Sorry, you did it again: QT! It is not Quicktime! It is "AV Foundation"! Many features & nice functionality against low & poor (but compatible to iOS) technology.

And no: as far as I know, "AV Foundation" is not supporting AVI. Oh, one moment: what do you mean with "support"? Opening the file, converting it (and waiting a short / longer time depending on the lenght of the video)? Do you mean this if you say "support"?

Even if AVI does contains H264 video (but usually a uncompatible audio track), it is not compatible to AV Foundation aka 64 bit Mavericks. You might be lucky and found a video which has the extension "AVI" and you can open it with "AV Foundation" without conversion - but hundreads / thousand of my video do not.

But more important:

1.) My camera records AVI videos which must be converted before playing / edit them.

2.) I have hundreds of panaramas (QuckTime VR) videos I can trash (if I follow Apple's plan).

I'm an early apple user too (I do remember the floppy discs on my apple IIe) still I haven't found the video converter that really works as much of the convertions starts but never ends. Where's the friendlly user app that will do that for me. I trusted Apple when I switched to Mavericks, I feel a bit unhappy haven't been warned in first place about this ISSUE. It would have been so simple to write: "warning QT won't work like before...bla,bla,bla but this ensure all your videos to be playback on iOS" It wouldn't have cost A LOT don't you think ? fortunately we still have VLC.

I understand their geeky point of view but most of the new users turn to Apple because of it's simplicity... you push the button and it works. Even my 80+ years old dad was able to use it... Who will explain him that ha can't see his old grandsons videos because a "geek band of idiots" (that's what he will say) decided to do it their way.

MAKE THE convert APP please

Sorry, you did it again: QT! It is not Quicktime! It is "AV Foundation"! Many features & nice functionality against low & poor (but compatible to iOS) technology.

Not when trying to distinguish between the QT X and the classic QT 7 player apps and their playback capabilities under Mavericks.

And no: as far as I know, "AV Foundation" is not supporting AVI. Oh, one moment: what do you mean with "support"? Opening the file, converting it (and waiting a short / longer time depending on the lenght of the video)? Do you mean this if you say "support"?

Obviously you did not bother to download and play the linked file provided in my post and try playing it in the QT X v10.3 player app or test it using the QL Finder "preview" feature.

Even if AVI does contains H264 video (but usually a uncompatible audio track), it is not compatible to AV Foundation aka 64 bit Mavericks. You might be lucky and found a video which has the extension "AVI" and you can open it with "AV Foundation" without conversion - but hundreads / thousand of my video do not.

The specific action of the QTMovieModerizer depends on both the container the conpression formats contained in the file. For instance, H.263/MP3 audio in an FLV file container converts to an H.264/AAC MOV file but the same data placed in an MOV file coverts to H.264/MP3 MOV file with the MP3 audio simply being passed through to the target container. The same seems to be true for H.264 BD video data in an MOV file. Unfortunately DTS and AC3 audio, when converted, end up with an average data rate of only 1 Kbps/ch at a 48.0 KHz sampling rate and are "out of spec" for playback even thought the moderizer software had targeted 320 Kbps for the AAC 5.1 audio track. However, this is not what really concerns me sinc I do not normally use the QT X player under any Mac OS X version. What does concern is the fact that Apple system native and "pro" codecs like AIC, Animation, PNG, some specific ProRes 422 family codecs, and DV stream files are also considered to be unsupported by the AV Foundation and automatically converted when opened in the QT X v10.3 player.

Also, you seemed to be missing the point of my comment. I was not trying to make the point that a few AVI files remain compatible with the QT X v10.3 player or QL under Mavericks, but that the file container itself is recognized and compatible with the updated 64-bit structure. The fact that the poster to whom I was responding used a digital camera that produces AVI files still compatible with the QT X player and QL was just an added benefit in driving home this point. As previously noted the G9 appears to use AVI with Motion JPEG video with PCM audio (WAV I believe). As have what I believe is an even older Motion JPEG video with DVI ADPCM audio in an AVI container that was sent me which was probably taken using a really old Casio digital camera. Essentially both fall into the same codec category so it is not surprising that if one is compatible, so is the other.

But more important:

1.) My camera records AVI videos which must be converted before playing / edit them.

2.) I have hundreds of panaramas (QuckTime VR) videos I can trash (if I follow Apple's plan).

3.) Times are changing... :-)

Might have been more informative had you actually posted the specific audio and video formats here so I could add them to my list of "problematice" AVI codecs since i only have a few sample AVI files stored on my system for testing purposes.

As to my personal VR files, I will continue to hang onto them until such time as the QT 7 player is no longer a viable viewing option.

I am very happy that I stopped updating and still have Mac OS 10.6 and iOS 4.3. I installed the newer systems on other hardware, but I have not seen anything helpful because I do not like iCloud or social media.

And I am happy to continue updating my files as needed. Indeed, I am hoping that sometime in the not overly distant future that 4K resolutions and Real 3D may be supported by TV and possibly other IOS devices.

I have to say I about had it with Apple and this stuff they pull. No AVI in quicktime and FLAC not working in itunes is getting old real fast.

I might as well just go use LINUX at least it works with everything.

It looks like you conveniently forgot to mention the other question, the one about a HUGE collection of AVI movies that my TV set will be unable to read if I convert them to another format.

Anyway, what I was trying to say was: AVI was not supported by QuickLook/QT even in Snow Leopard, but at least third party programmers were allowed to code some codecs for that or other formats and throw them in. Now that's not even possible, software like Perian or Flic4Mac are not allowed to do so, and they should…

Saluditos,

Ferrán.

PS: I'm comparing this situation with one I'm suffering due to Apple not being able to listen to their customers: I've been forced to create a new Apple ID in orde to be able to post here, since my old ID, the one I'm using with all my computers, iPhone and iPad, Apple Store . etc., is not accepted, it gives an odd error, not allowing me to access to Apple Support Communities (Discussions) with it. I have tried mail support, Genius Bar, etc., to no avail. And I'm not the only one, I've found several other people with the same problem: Apple has ignored us all.

Jon Walker wrote:

Not when trying to distinguish between the QT X and the classic QT 7 player apps and their playback capabilities under Mavericks.

Sorry, I did not want to be pedantic. QT X (64 bit) aka AV Foundation, classic QT 7 (32 bit) aka QuickTime, okay. But it seems that people are confused: they think that QT X has something to do with QuickTime, and they request updates because they think QT X has something to do with QuickTime.

Jon Walker wrote:

Obviously you did not bother to download and play the linked file provided in my post and try playing it in the QT X...

Sorry again, you are correct: I did not even try. I did it know and learned that there is one ⚠ more compatible video format.

Jon Walker wrote:

However, this is not what really concerns me sinc I do not normally use the QT X player under any Mac OS X version.

Same for me. But I guess that Apple will remove 32 bit support in (near?) future. And then it will be a problem.

Jon Walker wrote:

Might have been more informative had you actually posted the specific audio and video formats here so I could add them to my list of "problematice" AVI codecs...

I did not because the list of incompatible video formats is longer than the compatible video formats. And it is not helpful for me if AV Foundation recognizes the AVI container, but can not play its video format without conversion.

Compatible (as far as I know / tested): H.264, MPEG 1, MPEG 2, MPEG 4. And "your"

Motion JPEG OpenDML. MPEG 2 can be opened by QT X without conversion but is not really playable here - it stutteres very much.

Incompatible (as far as I know / tested): DivX 3, DivX 4, DivX 5, Indio 3, MS-MPEG 4, PIM1, Sorenson Video, Sorenson Video 3, Sorenson H.263, TrueMotion VP6, WMV 7, WMV 8, WMV 9, XVid. And "may be" the codecs you mentioned (AIC, Animation, PNG, some specific ProRes 422 family codecs, DV stream files). Obviously there a many more formats / codecs...

Even worse: the converted videos are bigger (1/3 to triple). And some of the videos stop convertion after some minutes.

martbr - Apple has ALREADY removed the 32-bit support for QuickTime components. Hence none of the codec packs working unless you donwload and use the QuickTime Player 7. I have some 32-bit System Prefernce files that run, but to access them the Preference Window does a close and open dance to get down to that level. Interesting.

Ferran - Apple ignores a LOT of things when they decide it is time to move on.

For what it is worth, I found another codec installation that may work for those who have it, apparently Toast Titanium has a DivX component install to allow transfer of TiVo grabs to the system. I just installed my old copy to Mavericks and it's got the option to add the components. If anyone has the app, at least version 9, it works - installed a DivX.decoder.component to the Library/QuickTime folder and offers a TiVo transfer app that launched on my system (though I do not have a TiVo..).

So this should be added to the QT 7 installations as a secondary option, as Toast is not free or inexpensive.

If anyone has this installation get back and let me know if that DivX component conflicts with the one actually FROM the DivX site.. IIRC a few years back there was a problem with different DiVX components, though I'm not sure which ones. As I have no TiVo, I cannot properly test this additional codec.

Start with QT 7.6.6. - http://support.apple.com/kb/DL923

Get Perian, and install it. - http://perian.org

then VLC, - http://videolan.org

DivX - http://divx.com - and the

Flip4Mac package from Telestream - http://www.telestream.net/flip4mac/

A52/AC3 downloader: https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/21875/a52codec - In this installer package there is an audio A52Codec.component. DO NOT USE IT! Throw it out and use the one that is linked below.

This is what I've put into my system and so far I've gotten every file to run fine, even my oldest videos.

These are codecs you should see.

In System/Library/QuickTime
AppleIntermediateCodec.component
AppleMPEG2Codec.component* (*optional if you've bought it)
DivX Decoder.component
Flip4Mac WMV Advanced.component
Flip4Mac WMV Export.component
Flip4Mac WMV Import.component

In your Home/Library/QuickTime/
AC3MovieImport.component (you may or may not want this component, in some instances it causes conflicts. In my system, it doesn't. Who knows why? I don't.)
Perian.component

For AC3 sound that is in most .mkv files, you need the A52Codec.component, this is the one you want, here:https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34821905/A52Codec.component.zip - unzip the file and put the component into the System/Library/Audio/Plug-ins/Components

Go back to your Perian settings and in the Audio Output button, set it to 'Multi Channel Sound' - Ignore the message Perian puts up and select it.

By doing a 'Get Info' on your files and where it says 'Open With' - default them to the QuickTime 7 program. Perian no longer will work with QuickTime Player so you must have QT 7.6.6 and set it so it is the default for all the filetypes you use.

It works perfectly with QT7. So far I've gotten ALL my old videos to play.

.avi, .mov (with the AC3 sound), .wmv, .flv, .mp4 and .m4v. all run fine as do all the older formats.

Deb.