Q: I hate the new tags in Mavericks, need coloured folders!!
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Jan 21, 2014 3:37 PMby Csound1,DABbio wrote:
Everybody lighten up, now
Yes, tags are very useful to some people, even me, and you C. Yes, lables are very useful to some people, including me. The point is, the two conventions need not be mutually exclusive-- for any Company in Cupertino that can manage to code its way out of a paper bag!!
"Killing People"?
Hard to take this thread at all seriously with lines like that, sorry
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Jan 21, 2014 3:38 PMby PeterBreis0807,So you are saying 'I like them!" Never found that compelling.
People like all sorts of things, believe all sorts of things. I like to have reasons and analysis.
I have no objection to tags, in fact I was looking forward to them. I had Tagit on my old system but it is always better to have these things integrated.
However you only have to see the two side by side:
Labels prior Mavericks and Tags in Mavericks to see which is immediately clearer.
Tags did not have to be integrated with Labels, they were previously separate and worked in conjunction. You could sort your material arbitrarily by color (labels) and add tags for another method of sorting.
Apple chose the path of stuffing up Labels by throwing it into the soup of Tags. Now I really don't want to use either because they are so muddled.
I find that Apple is just grinding everyone down to the lowest tolerable denominator. Users just end up giving up productive and very useful features because Apple arbitrarily removes them or handicaps them to the point of uselessness. Their latest versions of the iWork suite are a prime example.
Peter
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Jan 21, 2014 3:43 PMby PeterBreis0807,Csound1 wrote:
DABbio wrote:
Everybody lighten up, now
Yes, tags are very useful to some people, even me, and you C. Yes, lables are very useful to some people, including me. The point is, the two conventions need not be mutually exclusive-- for any Company in Cupertino that can manage to code its way out of a paper bag!!
"Killing People"?
Hard to take this thread at all seriously with lines like that, sorry
You never worked in the Aviation industry, …or Macdonalds.
Yes bad design and bad ideas kill people.
Those responsible appear to work harder on their excuses for when it happens, than they ever did on thinking it through in the first place.
Peter
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Jan 21, 2014 3:45 PMby wheetabix,PeterBreis0807 wrote:
So you are saying 'I like them!" Never found that compelling.
Huh???
Given that I provided three concrete reasons for why I find Tags more useful than Labels, based on actual functionality (i.e., not visual appeal, which seems to be your primary complaint), I have no idea how you can draw that conclusion from what I wrote.
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Jan 21, 2014 3:48 PMby PeterBreis0807,Csound1 wrote:
genk wrote:
Did Apple ever went back to previous designs when users asked to do so?
Yes, most recently when 'Save As'was removed in Lion and replaced in Mountain Lion/Mavericks.
No they didn't. They stiff necked persisted in hiding Save As so newbies still can't find it.
That's Apple, never wrong.
If they had done what users asked for, they would have put it back in the File menu in plain sight.
Csound1, I see you are still getting confused by that delusion that you are Apple, and not just a face in the crowd holding a credit card as far as Apple is concerned.
Peter
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Jan 21, 2014 3:58 PMby PeterBreis0807,It is not "visual appeal" it is being visible.
The first 2 points you made were just "I like it".
The last where you found it useful having both color and text, is not an argument for Apple's Tag implementation, because if they had kept Labels and Tags separate it would have been the same only the color labels would have been obvious. Currently they are obscure.
Apple's mistake has been trying to make the colors indicate the text tag, when there never would be enough clearly discernable colors to do what the Tags do, and by marrying them into multiple colored small dots removed from the file name it is just too hard to read, especially amongst all the other clutter in Finder.
Peter
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Jan 21, 2014 4:04 PMby Csound1,PeterBreis0807 wrote:
Csound1 wrote:
genk wrote:
Did Apple ever went back to previous designs when users asked to do so?
Yes, most recently when 'Save As'was removed in Lion and replaced in Mountain Lion/Mavericks.
No they didn't. They stiff necked persisted in hiding Save As so newbies still can't find it.
That's Apple, never wrong.
Unlike you who manages to be invariably wrong.
Here's Pages, in Mavericks showing off that hidden 'Save As'
I've wasted enough time already, so bye bye Peter, we'll just disagree.
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Jan 21, 2014 4:10 PMby wheetabix,PeterBreis0807 wrote:
The first 2 points you made were just "I like it".
No, if I'd intended to say "I like it" I would have said "I like it."
ALL THREE of my points were saying that — somewhat to my surprise — I actually used the functionality of Tags to help organize a rather complicated process. I don't think that would have happened prior to Tags. Instead, I would probably have just used Labels in conjunction with separating items using extra folders. While that can be fine, it's not always ideal, since it creates more nested structure, which can get unruly.
So, I was pleasantly surprised that using Tags helped me avoid some of that unruliness, and get the job done more quickly and easily (and with less chance of error) than might have happened prior to Tags.
Now, just to be clear, I'm not saying that some conjunction of Tags and Labels, or a visual adjustment of Tags to make them more obvious, wouldn't be potentially "better." I was just pointing that Tags are clearly not the disaster you feel they are.
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Jan 21, 2014 4:16 PMby Csound1,PeterBreis0807 wrote:
You had to hold down the option key as I said.
I did not and you do not have to hold the option key, you are mistaken, or being misleading.
And as you are using the old version of Pages, I am guessing misleading, because I know you can tell the difference.
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Jan 21, 2014 4:14 PMby PeterBreis0807,Fine I accept that.
We all have preferences, the "I like bit".
Mine is for "I like" to clearly see the labels, but I can't.
What took me no time at all, it was instantly obvious, now takes careful examination of small overlapping dots not near the other information which is the file name.
Peter
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Jan 21, 2014 4:26 PMby wheetabix,Actually, once I stopped freaking out about how confusing it was not to have "Save As...", and just learned to use "Duplicate" properly, I realized that it's actually a more elegant system. First of all, Duplicate is accessed using command-shift-S, so for someone who uses key-commands regularly it's identical to Save As (I literally hadn't noticed that it was missing from the menu in 10.9). Secondly, it's more straighforward, since you just do command-shift-S and type in the name of the new file, and you now have BOTH versions in front of you — which is actually visually clearer. Not to mention the fact that "duplicate" is semantically more apprpriate than "save as."
I think it's just a matter of letting these things evolve. I'm been using the Mac since the early '90s, so there have definitely been some changes I've had to get used to. Losing Save As was a big one, but now that I've switched my head around, I can see that the old way was just that; the old way.
