Q: Massive problem with audio interface

> Does anyone know whether folks with Fusion Drive Haswell iMacs BUT Firewire audio interfaces are experiencing the same problems?

Yes. I have a Motu Ultralite Mk3 Hybrid that supports both USB and firewire. I have late 2013 Haswell iMac + 3TB fusion drive + upgraded CPU + upgraded GPU + 10.9.1 with latest MOTU Mavericks ready drivers (v1.6 build 59200) and latest firmeware flashed in the device 1.06).

Via USB it is pretty unusable. Can run for a couple of minutes but then breaks down with pops and complete audio pauses.

With Apple Thunderbolt -> firewire 800 adapter + firewire 800 -> firewire 400 cable, it's even worse. Crashes the machine regularly, clock synch lost, and pops and bangs even more frequently.

This device is supposedly Mavericks compatible. With Snow Leopard + Late 2008 iMac + the same interface, I've never ever had a single issue in many years.

the new MOTU driver is available  (20 Jan. 2014). The problem is not solved at all, it improves a bit,  there is more time more  before the audio device crush

i have a motu 896 hd firewire . late 2013 Haswell iMac + fusion drive on maveriks X.9.1

Thanks for the replies re: Firewire iterfaces having the same issues as USB interfaces. 

I've now been through a *lot* of debugging exercises, including upgrading to 10.9.2, booting off an external drive, switching audio interfaces, etc. and I am convinced the problem has to be linked to whatever process controls the "smarts" of the FusionDrive.  I believe what's happening is that things start out fine, and then, when the process responsible for deciding what should live on the SSD portion of the FusionDrive vs. the traditional HD kicks in and either starts to analyze file access or, worse still, start moving files from one side to the other, it causes quick bursts of traffic on the data bus resuting in the audio glitches we hear.  My guess is that in the beta of 10.9.2 they've dialed the algorithm responsible for optimizing FusionDrive performance way back so it's much less agressive than in 10.9.1, but not quite enough to just back off completely if there's some threshhold of traffic on the data bus already (or if a known latency-sensitive application -- like Logic -- is running).  I've suggested to Apple engineering the idea of a user-exposed System Preferences control panel by which users could adjust the aggressiveness of the FusionDrive re-balancing and also tell it to hibernate althogether when particular user-specified applications (again, like Logic) are running.  I'll bet that would fix the problem and let the end-user address it on their own without having to wait for a new OS release in which Apple has chosen some arbitrary, fixed setting.  Worst case, it would at least be nice if there were a Unix config file end-users could edit (or twiddle via the command line) to determine its behavior.

"I believe what's happening is that things start out fine, and then, when the process responsible for deciding what should live on the SSD portion of the FusionDrive vs. the traditional HD kicks in and either starts to analyze file access or, worse still, start moving files from one side to the other, it causes quick bursts of traffic on the data bus resuting in the audio glitches we hear.  My guess is that in the beta of 10.9.2 they've dialed the algorithm responsible for optimizing FusionDrive performance way back so it's much less agressive than in 10.9.1, but not quite enough to just back off completely if there's some threshhold of traffic on the data bus already (or if a known latency-sensitive application -- like Logic -- is running).  I've suggested to Apple engineering the idea of a user-exposed System Preferences control panel by which users could adjust the aggressiveness of the FusionDrive re-balancing and also tell it to hibernate althogether when particular user-specified applications (again, like Logic) are running.  I'll bet that would fix the problem and let the end-user address it on their own without having to wait for a new OS release in which Apple has chosen some arbitrary, fixed setting.  Worst case, it would at least be nice if there were a Unix config file end-users could edit (or twiddle via the command line) to determine its behavior."

-> Sounds quite reasonable that re-balancing causes the trouble. That would explain why it went better and better on my iMac over 3 months (dont see / hear any more gapping occurences since weeks) w/o me seriously approaching to solve the issue from my side: As the disks get filled up more and more, the system files /often used files get accumulated on the SSD part - finally / as in my case / this part (128GB) of the drive  is just plain FULL and less and less re-balancing is happening as the user is just adding some occasionally used apps or some files....

I agree. It is a software issue. I am wondering if there is anyway they will be able to ascertain what activities need to be switched to the HD, and if or, it is a cache issue with the SSD memory. The devil is in the details, as they say.

This is my experience. I have a new Mac 1Tb FD with Maverick and a new Apogee duet2. Nothing else connected or installed. Playing sounds internal software works just fine.

1. Connected a Line6 USB device. Recording is totally useless with dropouts and so on....

2. Bought a new USB connected Apogee duet 2. That didnt change anything.

3. I contacted Apogee and got a new firmware for the Duet. Installed that but it didnt change anything. Still the same problems.

Conclusion (from this and your experiences) is that whatever external USB device you will have this problems.

4. Installed the Maverick beta1. The problems actually seemed to disapear. Something happened here. I can definitely say that this fixed the problems. But this is a quick test recording external input.

So, are the problems completely gone? Well, as you have mentioned doing this procedure there might still be problems. I havent really run any longer tests myself and this is a beta Maverick OS. It is not a preferred solution.

Should I try partition the FD drive or change it for a SSD?`

Right tested 10.9.2 beta 2 for a few days and it's got worse than beta 1. Really struggling with slipping latencies. It means that core Audio is super broken right now.

I'm taking a different route now to install 10.9.0 on a second partition and not update as my audio card works flawlessly with this version, it's only auto update that messed it all up.

I promise you all it's not a fusion drive only issue but also a disk issue with ssds too. I'm sure 10.9.1 solved fusion drive issues but there is a huge underlying bigger issue to do with the core audio and streaming of data to and from the disk at the latencies required.

I'm not confident the fix is coming soon and even still I don't think people on here are as picky as me as even small clicks are unacceptable considering disk speed boost, CPU boost etc but my old laptop pc can do much more without any clicks or issues and very stable performance.

I know apple doesn't look here but it must be fixed soon its a totally mental situation.

i have to disagree with the alexgowers post, i think ppl here are picky and should be for the money we are spending on these computers.

once again, my setup 3Tb fusion drive, 2013, apogee duet for ipod/iMac, will not work with 10.9.1, have updated firmware from agogee.  have also already exchanged the  duet....still same issues.

my testing strongly suggests its the Fusion.

-duet WORKS  perfect with 2013 macbook air running exact same mavericks 10.9.1 is non-fusion Solid state

-m-audio interface which works on 2011 macbook pro will not work on fusion drive

-not as relevant to my conclusion but yamaha steiburg does not work on fusion drive

i have spoke with senior garageband tech, he said he'd forward it to his engineering dept and appears that is all i will hear from them. (1.5 weeks ago now).

i booked a genius bar appointment, they agreed with my conclusion stating the iMac with flash drive should be exactly the same as the 2013 macbook air (except bigger and faster)

tired of waiting for the fix, and tired of pretending to be a computer tech, i requested an exchange/upgrade, 2.5 months after purchase date Appleonline had no issue with the exchange but i went through customer relations, new computer set to arrive january 31 and i will definately post my results.

speaking to customer relations was very helpful in extending my exchange date.  but fact of the matter i had to pay another $650 for the upgrade for a total of $3250  + duet $700, OUCH!!!  but at least they agreed to let me return the old mac after i receive the new mac for easy data transfer

ps, i would not install a non-authorized version of 10.9.2 as it might void my warranty, or cause problems with official release and updating of 10.9.2.  and same for investing all my time splitting the fusion drive.

Alex, what audio interface hardware/software are you using again?

Bob

I agree with you about 10.9.2 betas. I don't use my desktop computer primarily for recording - that's a side thing for me, so I already have enough issues with Adobe Creative Cloud that I wouldn't put beta system software on my machine.

What about creating a cloned boot drive right2thetop?

Just out of curiosity, does the Macbook Pro have the same Haswell chip and same USB3 hardware as the iMac?

I think it's great that they agreed to all those concessiions. Nice job!

Bob

no to the clone, i figured why pay more for the flash if cloning to an external drive negates that benefit.  the mbp is 2011 and dont think its a haswell chip, but i do believe it was upgraded to 10.9.1.  i thought the haswell chip is new to 2013( i could be wrong)

hope this helps

Sorry, I meant MacBook Air. What I am getting at is the hardware variables between a 2013 Air and iMac. Are the USB controllers the same? Is the chipset the same?

Apogee says it's not the Fusion drive that's the problem - that its kind of a red herring in that it appears to be the problem, but isn't.

I really don't know what the issue is - just trying to sort out all the info. Am typing this from my late 2013 iMac i5 27" with 3TB Fusion drive.

I DO hope they sort it all out soon.

Bob

Very interesting post edavies.  If you've pegged the problem correctly that would be a wonderful solution.

edavies wrote:

 

... I've suggested to Apple engineering the idea of a user-exposed System Preferences control panel by which users could adjust the aggressiveness of the FusionDrive re-balancing and also tell it to hibernate althogether when particular user-specified applications (again, like Logic) are running.  I'll bet that would fix the problem and let the end-user address it on their own without having to wait for a new OS release in which Apple has chosen some arbitrary, fixed setting.  ...

Also, where Alex referenced 10.9.1 in his most recent post, I believe he meant to say 10.9.2 beta 1.

10.9.1 did not solve anything that has to do with this problem.

Bob