AVI vs DV file format

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Level 2

256 points

AVI vs DV file format

I got great assitance last time, so I'll try another question.

What is the difference between capturing DV footage to a PC which would be an AVI file, and capturing to a Mac in FCP which would be a QT file.

Is there any compression, or are these completely uncompressed files? And, if there is compression, how much of a difference?

Also, if I export out as a DV stream or AVI how much difference between these two formats?

I've tried to googling, but the language in the information I am finding is starting to get a little confusing, and I am not sure I am finding the right information.

Thanks!

G5 dual proc with 1GB and 15 PB G4, Mac OS X (10.4.7)

Posted on Jul 6, 2006 6:52 AM

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Answer 1

Jul 6, 2006 8:39 AM in response to ArEss

You're comparing apples to apple boxes. While DV is a specific codec with its own specs, AVI is merely a wrapper that contains many different codecs and specs (much like QuickTime's MOV file type). AVI isn't a format at all ... its a file type.

-DH

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Answer 2

ArEss Author

Level 2

256 points

Jul 6, 2006 12:11 PM in response to David Harbsmeier

Okay, well, here's my dilemma....
Our university wants to stream the President's (unversity president, that is) speeches.
My IT guy wants the best audio and video possible and started talking about AVI. He is on Windows. This video will run through Windows Media Encoder.
So, I need to find out the best way to give him these AV presentations in a format that will look good and not lossy as it is streamed to the public. These are all pre-recorded presentations, not live streams.

He wants to know how to best export these projects out of FCP for the encoder.

And, feel free to point me to Websites that might have this info, as necessary.

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Answer 3

Maxx Power

Level 5

4,926 points

Jul 6, 2006 12:20 PM in response to ArEss

Whenever I have to deliver files to be encoded for wmv I give my guy AVI's. The settings you use will depend on the quality your IT guy wants. The encoder my guy uses won't take QT's so that's why we go with AVI's.
You may want to do a couple of tests to see what he likes but here's what we use
Go to File>Export>QT conversion> CHoose AVI and then go into the Options.
I use the DV/DVCPro-NTSC setting at 15 frames. Leave the slider where it is in the middle there on Average or whatever it is.. And leave the audio alone. Then he takes that and encodes it for WMV at his settings... No idea what those are
Here's an example http://www.petsincredible.com/Chewing_sample2.asp

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Answer 4

ArEss Author

Level 2

256 points

Jul 6, 2006 1:01 PM in response to Maxx Power

Hey, thanks. The AVI seems to be the way to go.
I couldn't get your file to play but for a second or two. But that's probably my machine - it needs a vacation.
Thanks, and I'm gonna try this with my IT guy today.

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Answer 5

Jul 6, 2006 1:05 PM in response to ArEss

An easier solution would be to use a Windows system with an analog video input card. Connect your Mac to your DV device, then connect the DV device's analog outputs to the Windows system. On the Windows system, download and install the free Windows Media Encoder from Microsoft. Use it to convert the feed from FCP's timeline to WMV format in real time.

-DH

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Answer 6

Maxplanar

Level 4

3,099 points

Jul 6, 2006 1:13 PM in response to ArEss

You can work as per normal in FCP, export the finished piece as a movie, and compress the full rez QT that creates into an AVI by using either Flip4Mac or Cleaner - both excellent video compression programmes that will happily make Windows-compatible movies.

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Answer 7

Maxx Power

Level 5

4,926 points

Jul 6, 2006 1:22 PM in response to Maxplanar

The reason we do it the way we do is because my company is cheap. They don't want to pay for softtware when you can just download the Windows Media encoder for the peecee for free.

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Answer 8

Maxplanar

Level 4

3,099 points

Jul 6, 2006 1:29 PM in response to Maxx Power

$49 for Flip4Mac Studio is a tiny amount to pay for great basic functionality. The $99 Pro version is even better value, with two-pass etc options.

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Answer 9

Jul 6, 2006 1:36 PM in response to ArEss

So, I need to find out the best way to give him these AV presentations in a format that will look good and not lossy as it is streamed to the public. These are all pre-recorded presentations, not live streams. He wants to know how to best export these projects out of FCP for the encoder.< </div>

There's Flash video to consider. It is coming on strong in the online distribution war.

"Quality" is a weird descriptor when you start talking about online delivery. the Web server people must be able to handle the connections and to serve up the files on demand. They probably have bandwidth or capacity issues you know nothing about. Merely giving them a file isn't the solution. You must know precisely what they want in terms of kbits per second limits. From that specification you must determine frame size and frame rate.

Compression is a long series of weirdly painful compromises.

bogiesan

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Answer 10

Maxx Power

Level 5

4,926 points

Jul 6, 2006 1:43 PM in response to David Bogie Chq-1

"Quality" is a weird descriptor when you start
talking about online delivery. the Web server people
must be able to handle the connections and to serve
up the files on demand. They probably have bandwidth
or capacity issues you know nothing about. Merely
giving them a file isn't the solution. You must know
precisely what they want in terms of kbits per second
limits. From that specification you must determine
frame size and frame rate.

Isn't that a good reason to simply hand of an AVI and let them compress it?

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Answer 11

ArEss Author

Level 2

256 points

Jul 6, 2006 1:49 PM in response to David Bogie Chq-1

"Quality" is a weird descriptor when you start talking about online delivery.

True that! I guess what I am trying to do is get as close to lossless as possible before the encoder gets a hold of the video and compresses it per its settings.

I know he wants the size at 320 x 240 and I would think the frame rate would need to be high based on the environmental surroundings of the speaker. Is this correct?

I'll check out Flash video.

Sorry to sound so naive, but I have not done very many videos for web, and now must get up to speed very quickly.

Thanks for your time!

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Answer 12

Jul 6, 2006 2:25 PM in response to ArEss

sorry, but i don't understand why the video needs to go through the Windows Media Encoder? shouldn't a university be hosting their streaming video in something standard like MPEG-4?

there would be a distinct advantage to using Compressor to encode directly from the FCP timeline to a streaming MPEG-4 preset. FCP tells Compressor where all of your edits are and creates keyframes at the edits so there is no pixelation across edits. Windows Media Encoder won't have this advantage.

you should probably do an MPEG-4 encoding and compare the subjective "quality" with the output of the Windows Media Encoder, given the fact that they're all starting with original DV sources. my bets would be on the fact that the tight coupling of FCP/Compressor would win in most cases. i've seen a lot of WMV on the web and the quality is really poor, quite frankly.

there's all that and the fact that more people on more different platforms would be able to watch it!

PowerMac G5 2.5GHz Mac OS X (10.4.5)

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Answer 13

Jul 6, 2006 4:13 PM in response to scott nichol

sorry, but i don't understand why the video needs to go through the Windows Media Encoder?<<</div>

Because from what he said, the IT guy/boss/client/person-in-charge wants it in WMV format. And since when is WMV NOT a standard format? For most people in the world, it is - more so than MPEG-4.

-DH

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Answer 14

ArEss Author

Level 2

256 points

Jul 6, 2006 4:17 PM in response to David Harbsmeier

I do not have a choice on the encoding. So, Windows it is.
Now it is up to me to output the video in a format that will withstand the encoding.
And, I do appreciate all the discussion on this. I had not considered Compressor.

I want to have a cache of 4-5 options, if that is possible, so that I can best meet the needs of the university.

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Answer 15

ArEss Author

Level 2

256 points

Jul 6, 2006 4:35 PM in response to Maxplanar

I happened upon a discussion you were having with Kevin and another guy about streaming video on the web. You mentioned the H.264 codec. And, there was also talk about the streaming trailers that Apple has available. That type of quality is what my IT guy here on campus wants and I need to meet that need.

Can you tell me more about how Apple compresses and streams those trailers?
They really look great!
And, isn't the is H.264 a newer codec? It is cross-platform-"able" isn't it?

As always, thank you for your patience with my many questions.

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