Q: Netflix quality HORRID after update

boylan wrote:

 

It's not at all clear how many users who are experiencing the ATV problem have tested

It doesn't matter how many have tested.  Despite many/most of the comments on this thread various people have made reasonably careful comparisons and the problem we're talking about is the problem noted by the OP.  An issue in the ATV3.  Probably a bug in the Netflix app but certainly an ATV3 specific issue.

I don't want to appear brusque but people should carefully read the entire thread before posting.  This is not an ISP issue, this is not a prime time non-prime time issue, this is not an ATV hardware or home network issue.  I have at least seven Netflix enabled devices in my house.  Only the ATV3 is having consistent Netflix problems but it does HBO Go, PBS, iTunes stream(down)loads etc. just fine.

I'm sure you don't mean to come off as such a snot but I've read every message on this thread and it's apparent, as always, that there are multiple problems.

While it's clear to me that there is an ATV specific problem it's also clear to me that many people do not have as many devices as you or I and may not have checked to determine whether they get normal HD stream performance on (say) a laptop.

Initially my own experience was that my problems were limited to the ATV but after a few days/week that changed and my Mac Mini performance cratered.  This has happened with Netflix before.

boylan wrote:

I'll bet they've never done that survey.

It's tricky.  Until recently I believe the Wii was the most popular client.  Now (or at least in Jan.) it's the PS3.  However neither is the absolute majority and lots of people use small or low-res devices like phones and inexpensive tablets.  Presumably Netflix knows exactly what's happening and believe people vote with their wallets and more and more of them buy Netflix.

GaryJR4 wrote:

 

Vandergraff wrote:

 

My Chromecast works great (though my AV receiver) but isn't family friendly. With the Apple TV (also through the AV receiver) everything can be controlled from our Harmony remote - not so with the Chromecast.

 

Yes it can.  Just add it as another Watch TV activity.

We are going off topic - but yes I have done that bit.

I can switch to the Chromecast using the Harmony - however once there I have to use an IOS (or Android) device to play content, pause, rewind etc.

It can be done but it isn't as family friendly as doing everything on the Harmony.

bodosom wrote:

 

boylan wrote:

I'll bet they've never done that survey.

It's tricky.  Until recently I believe the Wii was the most popular client.  Now (or at least in Jan.) it's the PS3.  However neither is the absolute majority and lots of people use small or low-res devices like phones and inexpensive tablets.  Presumably Netflix knows exactly what's happening and believe people vote with their wallets and more and more of them buy Netflix.

Agreed.

Again, I would spend more.  I frankly don't understand why they don't have two levels of software since they'd cut off a bunch of support calls regarding quality if they had better buffering which they can do on a computer.

boylan wrote:

 

I'm sure you don't mean to come off as such a snot but I've read every message on this thread and it's apparent, as always, that there are multiple problems.

Yes there are many problems with streaming.  However the thread starter observed a very specific problem which we saw earlier here.  You can read from that point for a somewhat more focused discussion.  This is a new (since early Nov) ATV3 specific problem.  If people want to talk about other problems I think they should start a new thread.  Perhaps about reversing HDMI cables to improve streaming performance.

boylan wrote:

While it's clear to me that there is an ATV specific problem it's also clear to me that many people do not have as many devices as you or I and may not have checked to determine whether they get normal HD stream performance on (say) a laptop.

I don't see your point.

boylan wrote:

Initially my own experience was that my problems were limited to the ATV but after a few days/week that changed and my Mac Mini performance cratered.  This has happened with Netflix before.

I'm sure it has but, based on the OP, that's not what this thread is about.  I don't understand why people can't accept that if they are having different symptoms they have a different problem.  Why the urge to lump everything together?

bodosom wrote:

 

Tony Ramirez wrote:

I rather the stream takes longer to buffer

I believe Netflix hopes to maximize common code.  Some devices have gigabytes to buffer content.  Others don't.

 

Presumably their market research and client measurements tells them people would rather watch lesser quality than wait.

My sense when I first got the Apple TV was it took longer to start (buffer) vs the Roku - but started at higher quality. Before Super HD was available on Comcast my Apple TV always started at 3850 kbps but the Roku took time to ramp. With Super HD the Apple TV seemed to start at 3000 kbps and then fairly quickly ramped to 5800 kbps - all before November 11th of course......

When the Apple TV is working correctly you can see the real-time bandwidth looks like a saw tooth after the initial buffer is filled. Downloading at full speed for a few seconds - then stopping for a few seconds - then downloading at full speed for a few seconds. On example short you can also see the download stop about 2 minutes before the end of playback suggesting it is playing out of the buffer for the last couple of minutes - all again before November 11th.....

The real-time bandwidth with the Chromecast looks very different. It is pretty flat even at the start of playback maybe indicating it isn't buffering as much as the Apple TV.

Vandergraff wrote:

 

GaryJR4 wrote:

 

Vandergraff wrote:

 

My Chromecast works great (though my AV receiver) but isn't family friendly. With the Apple TV (also through the AV receiver) everything can be controlled from our Harmony remote - not so with the Chromecast.

 

Yes it can.  Just add it as another Watch TV activity.

We are going off topic - but yes I have done that bit.

 

I can switch to the Chromecast using the Harmony - however once there I have use an IOS (or Android) device to play content, pause, rewind etc.

 

It can be done but it isn't as family friendly as doing everyone on the Harmony.

Yes use of Android device is made clear by Google advertising.  And I would say anyone able to use a smart phone or tablet in the simplest of manners can do it.  Easy enough that for anyone with Chromecast who is suffering through poor ATV performance currently does not have much of an excuse pending a fix.

Part of his point, I believe, was that it was not as family-friendly to use the Chromecast. I agree with that, as my kids use the ATV with ease with the Harmony, but I'm not giving them my phone so they can watch Netflix. I agree that it's better than watching 240 junk right now on ATV, but I really prefer a real remote to using IOS/Android devices as a TV controller.

GaryJR4 wrote:

 

Yes use of Android device is made clear by Google advertising.  And I would say anyone able to use a smart phone or tablet in the simplest of manners can do it.  Easy enough that for anyone with Chromecast who is suffering through poor ATV performance currently does not have much of an excuse pending a fix.

Now we are way off topic. Yes of course it is clear that an Andoid (or IOS) device is needed.

I am not quite sure why you feel the need to debate whether using an IOS device + Harmony is family friendly.

In my household it isn't and they won't. They just want to press a button and see a show or movie.

Let's move on.

The fact remains that at this time you can not but there is a good workaround.  Yes you should move on.

Hey, it's not up to me to run this discussion but if we are going to help be part of the solution it seems to me the best thing to do is stay on topic. Everyone here has posted that there are AppleTV issues with Netflix in prime time and I think that if there's something to say about that... say it. Let's not clutter it up for the techs.

Here is an interesting article about Netflix's customer service (I wasn't aware of this recent story):

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/31/netflix-customer-service_n_4178662.html

There are two things I am taking away from this:

1) Netflix is putting their main focus on making customer service reps appear more "human" - something I have clearly noticed when chatting with them - but in my case I was not that crazy about them striking an overly colloquial tone with me (when two of them crossed over into being flat-out rude)

2) apparently Netflix CEO Reed Hastings is occasionally taking customer calls himself (or so the article claims, for what it's worth...)

In the end Neflix seems to be caring a lot about "the experience of contacting the company". Instead they should put a little more emphasis on technical substance - we are not talking about some ignorant customers here who don't know how to turn on their devices...

Doesn't really help our case here, but at least it sheds some light on to how that company operates.

I am noticing this problem only on the Apple TV.

I have a PS3, Tivo Premiere, LG TV NetflixApp, iPad, IPhone.

The problem is only on my ATV device.

Yes ... All the other devices also exhibit instances where the video goes from HD to SD ... but within a few seconds they all ramp up back to HD.

The ATV 6.0.2 on the other hand will dropdown to SD within the first few seconds and NEVER ramps back up. This behavior only started recently.

Questions.

So, to get this back on track, here is a summary of the issue an my findings tonight. These are similar to what I've seen for the past month and what many others are reporting. It's not isolated to specific ISPs nor is it related to temporary drops in speed or time of day. The problems on the ATV are consistent and will persist through an entire movie and are non-existent on other devices.

ATV example short: starts at 4800 kbps and 1080p but after 4 seconds rebuffers and drops to 375 kbps and 384x288. It will generally stay at this low res level with occasional short term bumps.

Chromecast example short: starts at 235 kbps and steadily ramps up to 1750 in about 10 seconds and then 4300 kbps and finally 5800 kbps in another 10 secs where it remains.

First gen Roku: using debugging reports playing 2.6mbps stream. For some reason my Roku does not show the embedded details on the example short but picture quality is similar to 720p on the Chromecast before it fully ramps to 5800kbps which is all I believe the old Roku was capable of. Picture quality remains consistent on the Roku.

So, in summary, the problem is isolated to the ATV and Netflix app. I switched to the "high" option per the netfilx rep I spoke to which had no effect on the ATV quality but other devices are running fine. All on the same network with the Chromecast being wifi and the ATV and Roku wired.