Q: Netflix quality HORRID after update

bodosom wrote:

 

CharlieP wrote:

But... how does that explain the fact that I can Airplay Netflix to my Apple TV at perfect, steady resolution while my native Netflix ATV app chokes and sputters? That is the key differentiator IMO and tells a more specific story.

It doesn't really.  The quality change via AirPlay is almost certainly coincidental.  The data is streaming directly from the CDN to the ATV and usually from the same address.  The actual stream almost certainly changes from stereo  if DD is available.  It certainly always re-buffers.  I've seen a variety of results using AirPlay -- usually for the worse, never for the better.

If I read CharlieP's comment correctly he is supporting the argument that it is an issue specific to the Netflix Apple TV native application.

In which case I would agree. Airplay from a 3rd generation iPad to the Apple TV is as reliable for me as using the Chromecast. Airplay always gets its max (4300 kbps seems to be the limit for Airplay) and Chromecast always get 5800 kbps.

We know the Airplay stream is going directly to the Apple TV - so this suggests there is something different between the way Apple TV native Netflix app and the Airplay connection to the Apple TV are accessing Netflix.

Excellent report. Thanks for sharing with us!

vulcan_on_earth wrote:

 

So Good News ... Netflix is indeed aware and working closely with Apple engineers to fix this ...

 

14 minutes agoNetflix Kris

 

... It is a known issue and we are working closely with Apple on the next update they have lined up to fix the low resolution issue.

[...}

 

6 minutes agoNetflix Kris

 

Right, I totally understand that. So far, every customer that has chatted in about this has had their account flagged for research, which I've done with yours as well!

Thanks for sharing - vulcan_on_earth. This would indeed be good news. You have to understand that most of us here are rather cynical about Netflix customer reps telling us that "a fix is in the works". These front line Netflix support people usually only have the most basic training in troubleshooting. But this may very well be happening.

But I contacted Netflix support about an hour ago via phone and told the person the entire story of this thread.

Her response was this:

"Wow! I've never heard of this problem... - yes, Apple TV users do call in a lot, but all those issues we can usually resolve by simply restarting the unit or switching the playback settings to "high".

Yes, we know that! Sometimes that improves things in the short term. But it has never fixed things for any of us!

She also was not familiar with "Netflix Open Connect" or any other technical details regarding Netflix streaming. She did however confirm that the Netflix Apple TV app has not been touched by Netflix in a while and was certainly not updated yesterday.

She also said she would "flag" this issue with the Apple TV and send a report to the tech department. She also suggested calling in (by phone not chat) when the bad quality is happening (which was not possible for me this morning) - that way the customer rep could get on the line with the Netflix tech department and they could monitor your connection to get some clues.

For what it's worth. I suggest people start doing just that. Start calling in and demand they check your line while you're playing back crappy video. And don't let them waste your time by having you restart the devices, log in and out of Netflx and set your playback to High or Auto or back to High. It's a waste of time.

Vandergraff wrote:

In which case I would agree. Airplay from a 3rd generation iPad to the Apple TV is as reliable for me as using the Chromecast. Airplay always gets its max (4300 kbps seems to be the limit for Airplay) and Chromecast always get 5800 kbps.

 

We know the Airplay stream is going directly to the Apple TV - so this suggests there is something different between the way Apple TV native Netflix app and the Airplay connection to the Apple TV are accessing Netflix.

Except there is no AirPlay stream.  The iPad sends a command to the ATV to play a stream.  The quality on the iPad is, at my house, no predictor of the quality on the ATV.

Update.

5:00 pm Eastern.

Ran a Netflix test. 1750 kbps for about 15 seconds then drops to unwatchable 375 kbs.

Crackle on the otherhand looks great.

One month of Netflix wasted.

I called netflix tech support this morning as well about this issue and my account has been flagged to be monitored as well. I'm experiencing the same issue as everyone else in this forum. I have a first gen and second gen ATV. The second gen is on the latest update and two seconds after streaming super hd content the quality drops off so bad it looks like I'm watching VHS. The first gen is still on 5.3 and it plays hd content about as good as 720p content can look. Every thing else streams like normal so there has to be some coding issue between the app and the update. My networks bandwidth is where it usually is. 50 down and 10 up. My service provider is comcast. Hopefully enough customers provide feedback to force whomever is at fault... Apple or netflix or both... To get this fixed ASAP.

bodosom wrote:

 

Vandergraff wrote:

In which case I would agree. Airplay from a 3rd generation iPad to the Apple TV is as reliable for me as using the Chromecast. Airplay always gets its max (4300 kbps seems to be the limit for Airplay) and Chromecast always get 5800 kbps.

 

We know the Airplay stream is going directly to the Apple TV - so this suggests there is something different between the way Apple TV native Netflix app and the Airplay connection to the Apple TV are accessing Netflix.

Except there is no AirPlay stream.  The iPad sends a command to the ATV to play a stream.  The quality on the iPad is, at my house, no predictor of the quality on the ATV.

I totally understand the stream is going directly to the Apple TV and the iPad is only acting as a controller for the Apple TV to play the Netflix stream.

However in my case (and others in this thread) Netflix Airplay continues to work reliably on the Apple TV while the Apple TV native Netflix App doesn't. So there is clearly something different going on when the Apple TV receives a Netflix stream initiated by Airplay vs a Netflix stream initiated by the Apple TV native application.

Now you are seeing different behaviour - what is also strange - but in my case (and believe others as well from their posts) the behaviour is very repeatable.

The Apple TV native Netflix application (since about 11 November) never gets above 1750 kbps and often is a lot less. I also see the stutter that others refer to about 4 - 6 seconds after playback starts.

My Chromecast consistently gets 5800 kbps (sometimes ramping quickly - sometimes taking a little longer but getting there in the end)

Airplay from an iPad 3rd generation gets 4300 kbps (seems to be the limit of Airplay - and another indication that there is something different with an Airplay initiated Netflix stream. Prior to 11 November my Apple TV native Netflix application would get 5800 kbps)

Vandergraff wrote:

However in my case (and others in this thread) Netflix Airplay continues to work reliably on the Apple TV while the Apple TV native Netflix App doesn't. So there is clearly something different going on when the Apple TV receives a Netflix stream initiated by Airplay vs a Netflix stream initiated by the Apple TV native application.

 

Some context:

This evening (around 18:30 Eastern) I thought I spend a little time with AirPlay:

On my ATV: 4300 max, quite inconsistent, as low as 350.

On my iPad Air: 4300 max, fairly consistently.

On my iPad Mini (1G): 3000 constant.

On my TiVo: 5800 constant

On my Tivo while getting 4300 on my Air: 5800.  My bandwidth peak during this was 18Mbps with an average of 10Mbs.

  - This was just to make the point that there's plenty of bandwidth and no particular reason for the ATV to dawdle.

AirPlay from Mini to ATV: 4300 peak but extremely variable to as low as 256.

AirPlay from Air to ATV: 3000 peak also variable to as low as 256.

After these runs the TiVo (Roamio) continues to stream at 5800.

The iPad Mini hand-off results in a peak bit-rate greater than the Mini can sustain.  The Air does not.

Here's a somewhat compressed transcript of what happens when you hand-off from an iPad to an ATV.  The leading number is the number of packets from the same address.  After various bits of handshaking the bulk of the stream comes from ipv4_1.lagg0.c045.nyc001.ix.nflxvideo.net port 80.  Note the periodic renegotiation over HTTPS.  Presumably with each resolution change or just for load balancing.  Much redundancy and boring bits removed:

      1 a23-73-181-9.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com.http
     26 ec2-23-21-179-42.compute-1.amazonaws.com.https
      3 ec2-54-225-151-224.compute-1.amazonaws.com.https
   4298 ipv4_1.lagg0.c045.nyc001.ix.nflxvideo.net.http
   1034 ipv4_1.lagg0.c045.nyc001.ix.nflxvideo.net.http
      1 a23-195-103-141.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com.https
      1 ipv4_1.lagg0.c045.nyc001.ix.nflxvideo.net.http
      3 a23-195-103-141.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com.https
     57 ipv4_1.lagg0.c045.nyc001.ix.nflxvideo.net.http
      1 a23-195-103-141.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com.https
    885 ipv4_1.lagg0.c045.nyc001.ix.nflxvideo.net.http
      5 ec2-54-225-219-49.compute-1.amazonaws.com.https
    797 ipv4_1.lagg0.c045.nyc001.ix.nflxvideo.net.http
      4 ec2-54-225-151-224.compute-1.amazonaws.com.https
     32 ipv4_1.lagg0.c045.nyc001.ix.nflxvideo.net.http
      1 ec2-54-225-151-224.compute-1.amazonaws.com.https
     23 ipv4_1.lagg0.c045.nyc001.ix.nflxvideo.net.http
     97 ipv4_1.lagg0.c045.nyc001.ix.nflxvideo.net.http
    167 ipv4_1.lagg0.c045.nyc001.ix.nflxvideo.net.http
   8238 ipv4_1.lagg0.c045.nyc001.ix.nflxvideo.net.http
      2 ipv4_1.lagg0.c045.nyc001.ix.nflxvideo.net.http
      1 a23-195-103-141.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com.https
     30 ec2-23-21-63-94.compute-1.amazonaws.com.https
      1 a23-195-82-217.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com.https
      2 a23-195-82-217.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com.https
      3 ec2-23-21-63-94.compute-1.amazonaws.com.https
     13 a23-195-103-141.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com.https
      2 ipv4_1.lagg0.c045.nyc001.ix.nflxvideo.net.http

Nice work bodosom ... that chatter is very interesting. I notice amazon and akamai doing some work as well.

I have now quit watching Netflix ... I now use the new Bloomberg ATV app to watch NFLX.

Kidding.

Did this exactly, no change.

rgoldd2 wrote:

 

I actually just did this and oddly it has fixed at least temporarily the issue.

1. Settings > General > Reset > Restore on Apple TV...then reset it all up
   • In the interim went to Netflix.com clicked My Account > Sign out of all Devices
   • Also on Netflix.com "Playback settings" changed from High to Auto then Saved and then changed back to High and saved
2. Unplugged cable modem then AirPort Extreme/Time Capsule
3. Replugged in AirPort Extreme/Time Capsule
   • (waited ~3 mins)
4. Then plugged Cable Modem back in

 

Been a steady little while of 5800 kbps pray you guys (;

 

I'm glad I checked this board, because I was wondering what was going on with netflix.  Just to weigh in, streaming is awful not only on my 3rd generation apple tv, but also my ipad mini with retina display.  My 5c seems to stream higher quality video.  But I've also noticed that the windows 8 netflix app is pretty hit or miss lately, streaming fine some days and awful on others.  A friend said it's been awful on his ps4, also, so who knows what's going on.  Hopefully it's resolved soon. 

dillinr wrote:

 

Did this exactly, no change.

rgoldd2 wrote:

 

I actually just did this and oddly it has fixed at least temporarily the issue.

1. Settings > General > Reset > Restore on Apple TV...then reset it all up
   • In the interim went to Netflix.com clicked My Account > Sign out of all Devices
   • Also on Netflix.com "Playback settings" changed from High to Auto then Saved and then changed back to High and saved
2. Unplugged cable modem then AirPort Extreme/Time Capsule
3. Replugged in AirPort Extreme/Time Capsule
   • (waited ~3 mins)
4. Then plugged Cable Modem back in

 

Been a steady little while of 5800 kbps pray you guys (;

This resetting thing does nothing (other than forcing the Apple TV to reconnect to a Netflix stream.)

The one method that does the same thing - only much faster - is this:

If it starts out blurry - click out of the program - click back in - and repeat that till you get lucky and catch a stabile HD stream.

I am serious. This does work for me most of the time. I just watched an episode of Mad Men. Started out as a blurry mess, wouldn't ramp up (as it never does with the Apple TV). So I hit the menu button, clicked back in - and got lucky -  it stayed SuperHD all the way through.

bodosom wrote:

 

Some context:

 

This evening (around 18:30 Eastern) I thought I spend a little time with AirPlay:

On my ATV: 4300 max, quite inconsistent, as low as 350.

On my iPad Air: 4300 max, fairly consistently.

On my iPad Mini (1G): 3000 constant.

On my TiVo: 5800 constant

On my Tivo while getting 4300 on my Air: 5800.  My bandwidth peak during this was 18Mbps with an average of 10Mbs.

  - This was just to make the point that there's plenty of bandwidth and no particular reason for the ATV to dawdle.

AirPlay from Mini to ATV: 4300 peak but extremely variable to as low as 256.

AirPlay from Air to ATV: 3000 peak also variable to as low as 256.

 

After these runs the TiVo (Roamio) continues to stream at 5800.

 

Here is what I saw this evening

I tried multiple runs of 'Example Short' on my iPad, Apple TV via Airplay from iPad and Apple TV native Netflix application. Results were pretty consistent each time with Airplay getting a reliable 4300 kbps. All on a Comcast 16 Mbps connection.

From my router I can see established connection from the local IP address to destination address as shown below. I don't see (or maybe don't know how to see) the amount of data transferred between each connection).

Tests run around 8 PM PST.

iPad 3rd generation gets 3000 kbps on Example Short (from the router realtime bandwidth download starts at ~8 Mbps and then sawtooths between about 6 and 3 Mbps)

The iPad had established connections with

208.111.173.43:80 (seems to be Limelight Networks)                      

17.149.36.99:5223 (seems to be Apple)

54.244.243.187:443(seems to be Amazon)

208.111.151.66:80 (seems to be Limelight Networks)

Airplay from iPad 3rd generation through Apple TV gets 4300 kbps on Example Short (from the router realtime bandwidth download starts at 16 Mbps for 20 - 30 seconds at start of playback and then sawtooths between 16 Mbps and 0 Mpbs)  

The Apple TV had established connections with

68.142.79.91:80    (seems to be Limelight Networks) 

208.111.173.104:80 (seems to be Limelight Networks)

17.149.36.176:443  (seems to be Apple)

208.111.173.44:80  (seems to be Limelight Networks)

208.111.152.15:80  (seems to be Limelight Networks)

The Apple TV native Netflix app gets between  560 to 750 kps on Example Short (from the router realtime bandwidth download starts at ~ 2 Mbps and then averages under 1 Mbps)

The Apple TV had established connections with

108.175.46.92:80 (seems to be Netflix Streaming Services Inc)

50.112.96.217:443 (seems to be Amazon)

17.149.36.176:443 (seems to be Apple)                     

50.112.96.217:443 (seems to be Amazon)                     

108.175.46.92:80  ((seems to be Netflix Streaming Services Inc)                   

Frankly I am not willing to speculate on whether the different destination connections are relevant (bodosom and others can comment on this) but it seems the Apple TV Native Netflix App (as we know) remains broken - yet with Airplay my Apple TV seems to use all the available downstream bandwidth when needed and connects consistently at 4300 kbps (which seems to be the limit for Airplay)

The stopping and starting again is what works

If a picture is worth a thousand words, hopefully this video will be worth more.

I took the time tonight to test 6 different devices (Samsung Blu-Ray Player, iPad via AirPlay, PS3, PS4, and two AppleTVs).  Both AppleTVs performed as has been described in this thread while all the other devices streamed HD beautifly.  I wanted to capture it on video so people can understand exactly what we're all seeing.  Feel free to share this link as needed...hopefully we get a solution soon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXpNOLgABLE