shabfish

Q: Why does Logic 10 sound different to Logic 9 ? Logic 9 seems to be better....!?

hello

 

Im not sure if anyone else has noticed this but i feel that Logic 10 does not sound as good as Logic 9.

 

I got some new tracks back which we made in Logic 10 and they sound flat and very "HiFi".

 

Has anyone else noticed this ?

Logic Pro, Mac OS X (10.6.8)

Posted on Dec 10, 2013 12:08 AM

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Q: Why does Logic 10 sound different to Logic 9 ? Logic 9 seems to be better....!?

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  • by Eriksimon,

    Eriksimon Eriksimon Dec 10, 2013 1:33 AM in response to shabfish
    Level 6 (12,464 points)
    Dec 10, 2013 1:33 AM in response to shabfish

    This calls for a null test, though I have seen no reports from anybody on three different Logic fora about this... it may well be  a psycho-acoustic effect. You yourself actually used the word "feel".

     

    preparation: in LP 9, first bypass all FX plugins (some could interfere with the test because some have been altered (like AdLimiter) and some use unsynchronized modulation, which will screw up the null test),

    then bounce all instrument tracks in place, then delete (or mute) the original MIDI tracks,

    then hit Save,

    then bounce,

    then open-convert the project into LP X and bounce that.

    Close the project, create a new one with two audio tracks with No Input, drag your two bounces onto those, line them up sample-accurately, insert a Gain plugin on the second track, lower your main output to -12 dBFS, hit playback and invert the phase on the plugin - Logic should go completely silent, meaning the two bounces are identical. Any residual noises point to a difference between the two bounces.

  • by CoinOP1,

    CoinOP1 CoinOP1 Dec 11, 2013 2:31 AM in response to Eriksimon
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Dec 11, 2013 2:31 AM in response to Eriksimon

    Does this rule out changes in dynamics?

     

    I've noticed it too and somebody mentioned this before on a forum(this one or LPH). There was a work around either by Apple or user.

  • by shabfish,

    shabfish shabfish Dec 11, 2013 3:40 AM in response to CoinOP1
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Dec 11, 2013 3:40 AM in response to CoinOP1

    overal sound and dynamics have a very "hifi" feel in Logic 10.

  • by shabfish,

    shabfish shabfish Dec 11, 2013 3:41 AM in response to CoinOP1
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Dec 11, 2013 3:41 AM in response to CoinOP1

    Logic 10 doesn't sound as good as Logic 9.

     

    I have done sevreal porjects Logic 10 and they haven't come out too good when it came to the mix down stage.

  • by Eriksimon,

    Eriksimon Eriksimon Dec 11, 2013 4:30 AM in response to CoinOP1
    Level 6 (12,464 points)
    Dec 11, 2013 4:30 AM in response to CoinOP1

    CoinOP1 wrote:

     

    Does this rule out changes in dynamics?

    I don't fully understand what you mean by that, but if the dynamics plugins in LP X have been redesigned, then using those plugins with identical settings in a null test could yield differences ; but you'd have to do that test before you can say anything about it. However, the claim it is not about the plugins, but about the audio engine itself, which is part of OS X, not Logic. It could be that Mavericks sounds different from Mountain Lion. But I haven't got Mavericks so I can't test it.

     

    I just performed a nulltest between LP 9 and LP X and they do in fact completely null. So any perceived difference is probably caused by differences in (default) plugin settings. Nulltesting the LP X vs LP 9 MultiPressor and AdLimiter also yielded a (near) nulled file.

  • by The Art Of Sound,

    The Art Of Sound The Art Of Sound Dec 11, 2013 6:23 AM in response to Eriksimon
    Level 6 (12,107 points)
    Dec 11, 2013 6:23 AM in response to Eriksimon

    .

  • by Pancenter,Helpful

    Pancenter Pancenter Dec 11, 2013 10:41 AM in response to shabfish
    Level 6 (9,913 points)
    Audio
    Dec 11, 2013 10:41 AM in response to shabfish

    Make sure Pan Law is set the same in both applications.

  • by shabfish,

    shabfish shabfish Dec 11, 2013 10:58 AM in response to Pancenter
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Dec 11, 2013 10:58 AM in response to Pancenter

    what is PAN LAW ?

     

    can you please advise

     

    Thanks

     

    Shab

  • by Eriksimon,Helpful

    Eriksimon Eriksimon Dec 11, 2013 11:03 AM in response to shabfish
    Level 6 (12,464 points)
    Dec 11, 2013 11:03 AM in response to shabfish
  • by The Art Of Sound,

    The Art Of Sound The Art Of Sound Dec 11, 2013 1:33 PM in response to shabfish
    Level 6 (12,107 points)
    Dec 11, 2013 1:33 PM in response to shabfish

    .

  • by shabfish,

    shabfish shabfish Dec 11, 2013 11:43 PM in response to Eriksimon
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Dec 11, 2013 11:43 PM in response to Eriksimon

    I've checked both 9 and 10 are set the same.

     

    this 1.png

  • by octopi,

    octopi octopi Dec 12, 2013 4:39 AM in response to shabfish
    Level 4 (1,342 points)
    Audio
    Dec 12, 2013 4:39 AM in response to shabfish

    Have you done the null test - without any plug-ins, as Erik described earlier in the thread?

    This is the only way to test the audio engine. When that nulls, and it 99.99% will, you can begin to add plugs into each project to see what, if anything is changing.

  • by WinnKrozack,Solvedanswer

    WinnKrozack WinnKrozack Apr 21, 2014 10:11 PM in response to shabfish
    Level 1 (10 points)
    Apr 21, 2014 10:11 PM in response to shabfish

    I just installed Logic X. It was a very long, too long of a process.  To my ears, Logic X definitely sounds different than Logic 9.

     

    I am trying to get used to it. I am a professional audio engineer and inventor of 40+ years, and have mixed some of the biggest artists in music.

     

    This is what I hear in X:

    The very low frequencies are wider and clearer, mid bass freguencies / fundamentals seems to be a greater amplitude but clear, high mids 3k to 6k can sound harsh, very high freguencies seem reduced. I have done comparisons with headphones, several sets of monitors, and my vintage Westlake TM-3 monitors.

     

    I mostly play orchestral samples to create orchestral soundtracks. To my ears, my orchestral samples sound more natural, clearer, neutral, more musical, and more dimensional in Logic 9. That being said, I am working on modifying my samples to sound better in Logic X. I can still get good results, but this software definitely sounds different, and maybe not quite as good as Logic 9.  I will have to try more projects on X to finally decide.

    It kind of reminds me of when I play through different consoles. Some rigs are more inspiring to play through than others, and are sort of like crayons.

     

    I am surprised that more people have not noticed and said something about it.  It sounds about 15% different to me, and that is a lot.  I am grateful Logic 9 does not get overwritten by Logic X.

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