shabfish

Q: Why does Logic 10 sound different to Logic 9 ? Logic 9 seems to be better....!?

hello

 

Im not sure if anyone else has noticed this but i feel that Logic 10 does not sound as good as Logic 9.

 

I got some new tracks back which we made in Logic 10 and they sound flat and very "HiFi".

 

Has anyone else noticed this ?

Logic Pro, Mac OS X (10.6.8)

Posted on Dec 10, 2013 12:08 AM

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Q: Why does Logic 10 sound different to Logic 9 ? Logic 9 seems to be better....!?

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  • by CoinOP1,

    CoinOP1 CoinOP1 Apr 22, 2014 1:37 PM in response to Pancenter
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Apr 22, 2014 1:37 PM in response to Pancenter

    I'm aware. That's why I said something is off. What causes it I don't know, but doing a null test to determine if the DAW itself is not the culprit doesn't help me get old projects sound the same in LPX. I'm still going to need those plugins.

     

    Someone on this forum or Logic Pro Help claimed to experience the same issue and had workaround. I can't find it offcourse....

  • by The Art Of Sound,

    The Art Of Sound The Art Of Sound Apr 22, 2014 2:03 PM in response to CoinOP1
    Level 6 (12,107 points)
    Apr 22, 2014 2:03 PM in response to CoinOP1

    Well, the easiest workaround.. (and please take this in the spirit it is intended) is to use LP9 for existing LP9 projects... as LP9.1.8 works fine with Mavericks...and happily coexists with LPX...  and use LPX for new projects.. which is exactly what i have done... when there is any noticable differences. I must admit, I have noticed few such differences myself but then I don't use Logic's built in FX.. (certainly very rarely the built in EQ and Compressor for example) that much but rather a 3rd party EQ/Compressor/Mastering plugin so i assume thats probably why...

  • by WinnKrozack,

    WinnKrozack WinnKrozack Apr 22, 2014 2:27 PM in response to The Art Of Sound
    Level 1 (10 points)
    Apr 22, 2014 2:27 PM in response to The Art Of Sound

    Good point on the third party plug ins.  I use mostly Logic plug ins, and I have to get my Waves plug ins working again, since I updated the software.

  • by bigjoec21,

    bigjoec21 bigjoec21 Mar 3, 2015 6:19 AM in response to CoinOP1
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Mar 3, 2015 6:19 AM in response to CoinOP1

    Did you ever Find this Work around for logic 9 to x?

  • by axiom61,

    axiom61 axiom61 May 17, 2016 8:48 PM in response to shabfish
    Level 1 (4 points)
    May 17, 2016 8:48 PM in response to shabfish

    You are perfectly right, LPX sounds very bad, I can compare it to a broken piece of equipment. I find no pleasure at all working with it.

  • by octopi,

    octopi octopi May 18, 2016 9:01 AM in response to bigjoec21
    Level 4 (1,357 points)
    Audio
    May 18, 2016 9:01 AM in response to bigjoec21

    Blimey, a thread getting on for nearly 3 years old and so many participants never did the null test, or, at least; never posted the results of a null test.

  • by Appleiduseless,

    Appleiduseless Appleiduseless May 18, 2016 3:33 PM in response to shabfish
    Level 1 (9 points)
    May 18, 2016 3:33 PM in response to shabfish

    At some point, the way audio is summed in Logic was changed. I don't know what version but it was 9 or 10 I think. May have been when it went 64 bit but I could be wrong.

    Mike

  • by Eriksimon,

    Eriksimon Eriksimon May 19, 2016 9:08 AM in response to octopi
    Level 6 (12,469 points)
    May 19, 2016 9:08 AM in response to octopi

    Ception.gif

     

    Ception2.gif

  • by Connor Hawke,

    Connor Hawke Connor Hawke Sep 10, 2016 6:20 AM in response to Appleiduseless
    Level 1 (8 points)
    Audio
    Sep 10, 2016 6:20 AM in response to Appleiduseless

    I can confirm Logic X outputs differently than Logic 9. A project that I rebounced with the same settings in Logic X without any changes clips whereas it didn't in Logic 9, without even sounding noticeably louder. I haven't checked to see whether the changes are on a macro or micro level (e.g. plugin/asset-specific). I guess there's not much we can do about it besides tweak the audio to work around the changes.

  • by Eriksimon,

    Eriksimon Eriksimon Sep 12, 2016 12:41 AM in response to Connor Hawke
    Level 6 (12,469 points)
    Sep 12, 2016 12:41 AM in response to Connor Hawke

    DO A NULL TEST! Everybody is sooooo sure they hear a difference, but nobody seems to be able to do a decent null test. This to me means that all that is happening is PERCEPTION BIAS and ego. None of you have "great ears, better than the best trained engineers and musicians". If the difference actually exists, you can PROVE it with a null test. NOBODY has done that so far - or maybe they have, and it nulled, and they were embarassed and never reported back.

  • by Connor Hawke,

    Connor Hawke Connor Hawke Sep 12, 2016 1:36 AM in response to Eriksimon
    Level 1 (8 points)
    Audio
    Sep 12, 2016 1:36 AM in response to Eriksimon

    Wouldn't the fact that the exact same content clips when bounced in Logic X but not in Logic 9 prove there's a difference in sound? Still, I'm sure some people still have both programs installed so if someone would like more evidence by doing a null test, be our guest.

  • by Eriksimon,

    Eriksimon Eriksimon Sep 12, 2016 1:45 AM in response to Connor Hawke
    Level 6 (12,469 points)
    Sep 12, 2016 1:45 AM in response to Connor Hawke

    I do not believe any claim until I can replicate it, since people can make zillions of mistakes in Logic, it being such a deep program. I have been on these fora for eight years, and more than 90 % of all issues are down to pilot error, even very experienced users still may make simple mistakes. Like in science, the only thing that can convince me is replication of the results. If they can't be replicated, it is a form of pilot error. Also, nobody seems to realise that the audio engine is not in Logic, but in OS X.

    I did a null test between LP9 and LPX (on the same OS!), and they nulled perfectly.

  • by Connor Hawke,

    Connor Hawke Connor Hawke Sep 12, 2016 2:01 AM in response to Eriksimon
    Level 1 (8 points)
    Audio
    Sep 12, 2016 2:01 AM in response to Eriksimon

    Ah so you've already done a null test. Well in any case, at least for me, there's a difference somewhere so if it's not Logic then I guess it's pilot error (though not due to any manual changes by me) or OS X.

  • by Jazzmaniac,

    Jazzmaniac Jazzmaniac Sep 12, 2016 3:18 AM in response to Eriksimon
    Level 2 (489 points)
    Sep 12, 2016 3:18 AM in response to Eriksimon

    Eriksimon wrote:

     

    Also, nobody seems to realise that the audio engine is not in Logic, but in OS X.

    I don't think that this is correct. Where do you have this information from? Some years ago, I was involved with the technical details of the logic audio engine, and I can guarantee you that it stands on its own. While macOS/iOS/etc provide a framework for setting up Audio Unit graphs and rendering them within Core Audio and this is used by many applications, DAWs usually don't make use of it. The framework just does not provide for the flexibility, performance and scheduling requirements that typically arise. Last time I checked, anything related to the actual signal processing in Logic was handled exclusively by logic code and the only interface with CoreAudio was when the signal was passed to the HAL node for low latency output. Things may have changed in the meantime, but I don't think so.

     

    An example for a macOS application that lets CoreAudio handle everything is AU Lab, which is part of the macOS developer tools and meant for AU testing and debugging.

  • by Eriksimon,

    Eriksimon Eriksimon Sep 12, 2016 3:47 AM in response to Jazzmaniac
    Level 6 (12,469 points)
    Sep 12, 2016 3:47 AM in response to Jazzmaniac

    I cannot remember where I got this info, it was off a site that compared many OS's (Linuxes, Windowses, Mac OS 9.2.2 and some X's and even some dedicated audio hardware OS's) in their audio fidelity - OS X was the "best" (least noise, most flat response across the spectrum). In fact, I now recall that the most recent Mac OS X on that site was Leopard, so it's been a while. But I believe it was some Californian Universities' site, so there was solid reason for me to trust the information. BUT, like any human, my memory is not flawless, and I am willing to change what I think I know if it turns out to be inaccurate. However, a null test between two audio files created by the same app on different OS's may well show differences, so a failing null test between LP 9 on OS X 9 and LP X on OS X 11, doesn't prove to me that LP 9 and LP X are different. Only a correctly failed null test between those two on the same OS would reliably confirm that there must be a difference between the apps.

    I am pretty sure that Logic also uses OS X audio for certain basic/fundamental processes - and of course it also has something of an audio engine, but I do not think it has a completely independent audio engine. It taps into coreaudio - no, now I think of it, what is needed to make Logic capable of recording and playing back audio? You need to enable core audio. Which is part of OS X, not Logic.

    pic 2016-09-12 at 12.46.27.PNG

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