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Information on 2013 iMac FD issue / USB2-3 Issue and Driver Incompatibility issue

I've created this new thread to outline the THREE different issues currently being discussed in various threads here and elsewhere in the hope of clarifying a few things and cleaning the 'mess' up a little!


There are currently THREE specific and different issues that a Mac owner might have in relation to Audio problems.


Some Users may well have all three problems at the same time or a combination of any/all of them.


Issue #1 - If you own a 2013 iMac with a Fusion Drive fitted then you wil get audio dropouts, clicks and other audio issues.


To test, unplug all 3rd party interfaces and test with internal Audio only. Most people report audio dropout and noise via internal Audio.


Status - Wating on a software fix from Apple.


Possible temporary workaround options -


1) Boot from an External HD, (Very effective with a high reported success rate) and wait until fix is issued by Apple.

2) Split the FD into separate SSD and Mech Drives... (Fairly effective... but not as good as the ext drive menthod it seems) and wait for fix from Apple.

3) Contact Apple and ask for a non FD replacement iMac (when/if possible)

4) Wait for the Apple Fix


Issue #2 = If you use a USB2 device/interface/whatever and it is connected to a USB3 port then that device might have problems.


Note: This issue does not affect Firewire devices for obvious reasons...


Possible Workarounds - Note: Users have reported varying levels of success with these fixes depending on the USB2 device in question. and what else is connected to your Mac.


1) Use a USB2 powered hub. Connect device to powered hub and connect powered hub to USB3 port


2) Use a Thunderbolt hub. Conect device to TBolt hub and hub to TBolt port on Mac.


Status - Waiting on fixes from the makers of these USB2 devices to correct the problem where possible.


Issue #3 - Incompatible drivers/hardware with either 10.9 and/or 10.8. Affects mainly audio interfaces that use drivers to communicate with your Mac... but can also affect USB2 Midi interfaces and Audio interfaces those that are supposed to be 'class compliant' and therefore do not use drivers... Class compliant devices have been fixed in the past by firmware updates whenever possible, by the makers of the device. In some cases however, makers of certain USB2 devices have not been able to correct the issue and have released new versions of their hardware to reolve issue (which of course were not provided as free replacements for users with these probmatic devices!)


Workaround


Roll back to previous working OS X version whenever possible and wait for updated drivers from Maker of your device.


Status - Awaiting updated drivers from the Makers of the USB2 device.


As can be seen from the above list, it is possible that certain users who have a 2013 imac with an FD fitted and own a USB2 interface could be subject to all three issues... and you should be keenly aware of this fact. When Apple release a fix for Issue #1 you may still have problems relating to either/both Issue #2 and #3... depending on the USB2 device you own....


Important Note:


Please feel free to ask questions regarding these three issues and their descriptions but try not to clutter up the thread with other problems or posts regarding comments such as "Why isn't Apple/Maker of device fixing this?" or "I'll switch to "Name of other DAW" if this isnt fixed soon..." as frankly no one here cares about such things as none of us work for Apple 🙂


Thanks!

Logic Pro X, OS X Mavericks (10.9), Motu UltraLite V3

Posted on Dec 12, 2013 2:59 PM

Reply
158 replies

Dec 12, 2013 3:25 PM in response to The Art Of Sound

Additional Info:


There are no ETA's known for any of the fixes mentioned above... When any are released the information will be posted up here (and no doubt, in regards to Issue #1, via Software Updates)


No one here would know of any time frames unless they are official spokespeople for either Apple or any 3rd Party USB devices.


Apple are aware of the FD issue (Issue #1) and their US Engineering team is working on it. Customer Service reps and other Apple personal may not be aware of the issue...


Finally, if anyone notices any mistakes etc in any of the above information, please feel free to post correctione etc.....

Dec 13, 2013 8:07 AM in response to The Art Of Sound

I also wanted to thank all of those Users here and elsewhere, who have reported any of the above issues... for contributing to the various threads, hanging in there... and helping suggest and test out the various workarounds..


All of you have helped me compile this thread and I just wanted to thank you all personally for your help and patience... during this extremely frustrating time....


Roll on the fixes!!!!

Dec 18, 2013 12:22 AM in response to The Art Of Sound

The Art Of Sound wrote:


Issue #1 - If you own a 2013 iMac with a Fusion Drive fitted then you wil get audio dropouts, clicks and other audio issues.


I only wish this was the extent of it.


Plug an iPhone into a Late 2013 iMac with a Fusion Drive either directly, though a USB hub or a USB port of another device attached to the machine and it will randomly freeze. You may hear a sound or see the iPhone's screen light up or you may not but the keyboard and mouse will no longer respond to input and the only option will be to hard reset the machine by pressing and holding the power button.


Upon restarting you will find an error similar to the following at the moment of the freeze:


12/15/13 8:07:16.000 PM kernel[0]: vtd[0] fault: device 0:20:0 reason 0x6 R:0x12bd000

12/15/13 8:07:16.000 PM kernel[0]: USBF: 17276.645 AppleUSBXHCI::UIMCheckForTimeouts - HSE bit set:5 (1)


The same freeze, with the same error can be induced by using USB headphones as the audio ouput device in an app like Plex.


And yes, there are audio quality issues as well. For example, while I can choose the USB headset as the audio input device, it will stop recording audio after a few moments.

Dec 18, 2013 1:23 AM in response to adam swink

adam swink wrote:


Thank you for making this thread! Just to add:


*Late 2012 Fusion Drive users are experiencing the same issues!*


Sad to know this issue is a year old.


Looks like the latest OS update slightly improved the audio situation, didn't fix though and seems to be causing some other problems. Just had a former client email me saying both his keyboard and audio interface are no longer recognized. (10.9.1)

Dec 18, 2013 1:34 AM in response to Pancenter

One thing to mention... when performing an operating system update... whether incremental or not, it's always best to unplug all external peripherals except for keyboard and mouse.


The reason being: During the upgrade process the ports (USB/Firewire) will reset and often a bit of garbage data can be sent out as they re-initialize. It used to cause MOTU 828MkII's to stop working until a factory reset was performed.

Dec 18, 2013 6:50 AM in response to The Art Of Sound

Hi Art,


Thanks for being so thorough as per the usual!


Just thought I would update, I just installed crApple's latest OS updates and guess what??


IT'S MADE THE ISSUE EVEN BLOODY WORSE!!!!!


This time, When I turn on my Motu 828mk3 interface, it loads up Cuemix (the graphical interface of the interface) automatically but now instead of me getting 1-2 mins of any audio, hearing a snap crackle and pop followed by a "weeeee" and then lights 3&4 of analogue out light up, I merely get the lights of Analogue Out 3&4 lighting up with no sound at all.....


Art how do you think such a catastrophic error occurred with these iMacs? Do you think Apple knew about it and decided to follow the "f**k the consumer let's make loads of money" route? It starts to seem that way.


Imagine if this was BMW, they would have issued a world wide recall or advised to bring to local dealership to sort the issue out. S'pose that's the difference between Deutsche quality and American/Chinese build quality.....

Dec 18, 2013 7:32 AM in response to El Gweiro

El G,


Have you tried resetting your 828?


As Pancenter eloquently stated above, there is a known issue that can occur, after updating OS X, that can affect Motu gear (and other brands of Audio Interfaces too) if you do not unplug them duirng the update process... producing all kinds of wierd issues...


http://www.motu.com/techsupport/technotes/reset


(Thank you for your kind comments too!)


Cheers..


Nigel

Dec 18, 2013 7:46 AM in response to The Art Of Sound

Hi Nigel,


No worries, you seem to be one of the most helpful people on the internet!!! 🙂


Thanks for the suggestion, but yeah I did try that this afternoon after the update took place. No dice!


I have now emailed Apple Store in Southampton UK where I bought mine from including details of issues, hyperlinks to Support on here and screen captures in the hope that they will stop selling all affected Macs until a fix is found. I highlighted to them that now I have written in and they know about the issues, they will be selling products deemed unfit for sale under the The Sale of Goods Act 1979. Any such breaches can land penalties, prison sentances or combinatiosns of both!


I suggest people do the same for their own local stores. If you have sales people scared of selling broken products, Apple will not be making as much money and should come out with a fix sooner rather than later.


::James pushes his queen to Apple's king pawn 3, check, Apple your move::

Dec 18, 2013 7:49 AM in response to The Art Of Sound

Oh BTW Nigel,


Have you heard any issues thus far with Mac Pros? I haven't so am thinking this is purely iMac, MacMini and MacBook Pro related. Please tell me if I am wrong as I am pushing for them to upgrade me to one of those if they are unaffectied and no solution is provided by beginning 2014!


Is the logicboard different on the Mac Pro? I kinda get the feeling that the iMac logicboard is scaled down for Macbooks and Minis, again let me know if this is completely wrong but would be under the impression that the logicboard would be the only main difference between all other models experienceing issues.


All the best Captain N!


James

Dec 19, 2013 2:12 AM in response to The Art Of Sound

Hi All,


I have been watching and reading all the post related to this issue.

I have a late 2013 with 1T FD and I wanted to thank all the people here, especially Nigel, for all the information sharing,

I wanted to share with you my experience with this issue.


I had the pops/crackling/noise issue.

had it on ML and Mav, on any audio software, when used Line6 UX1, and Motu MicroBook ii/Audio Express.

it took my some time and effort until I finally realized the problem is with my machine.


the first solution I tried: booting from external HD, did not worked well for me - I still got the pops.

I don't know why, maybe my system was still using the FD somehow.. I did not erase it.


the second solution I tried : splitting the FD worked for me.

I no longer get the pops! there is a nice article how to do it with the Terminal:

http://www.macworld.com/article/2015664/how-to-split-up-a-fusion-drive.html


Unfortunately, I can not get a refund/fix/replacement from my local authorized seller (iMac was sent to lab and passed all tests), nor a solution,

Apple support help was poor because I am outside of US.

imagine that - spent a nice amount on iMac and interface, and I can get a decent sound.

really sad.


One more point : I got a few application crashes, it happened twice with Logic Pro X, and once more with another application - I don't know if it is even related to the issue.


so, my current state is: FD was spitted, I do get a decent sound now, nobody (local authorized seller/Apple)

really helped me, I am crossing my finger and waiting to Apple fix.


Peace, love and Rock'n'Roll,

Yo-C

Dec 19, 2013 8:45 PM in response to The Art Of Sound

I'm just noticing a similar issue on my new iMac (all maxed out with Fusion drive and 32GB RAM), with a M-Audio ProFire 610 interface hooked up with FireWire (using the Thunderbolt adapter), as well as a couple of external FW drives daisy chained to it.


The kernel error is very clearly a FireWire problem though. Is anybody here experiencing these kinds of issues with a non-FireWire interface, i.e. USB? I highly doubt that the Fusion drive is in any way directly related to this issue (maybe tangentially).


I'm betting that this is more likely a problem with the Apple Thunderbolt-to-FW adapter or its drivers in Mavericks and the way it interacts with FW audio interfaces. This may be fixable with an Apple software update if that's the case, but I may just have to consider switching to a USB3 interface for Christmas if this is indeed a FW issue...

Dec 19, 2013 9:12 PM in response to megastep

You will probably find this thread of interest....


http://community.m-audio.com/m-audio/topics/profire_610_is_not_running_on_mac_os _x_10_9_mavericks


Currently, I would only recommend FW equipped Audio Interfaces that have solid Mavericks compatible drivers and a separate power supply.... Unfortunately it seems your 610 has neither fully compatible 10.9 drivers.. and has an issue getting power via a TBolt to FW adaptor... and as you suspected, the most likely cause of your system crashes


However, even if you resolve your Audio interface issue...as you also have a 2013 iMac with an FD fitted, you will also have the audio dropout/noise issue too.. unless you follow the workarounds in the first post of this thread... until such time as a fix is released from Apple...


A 'double whammy' for sure... unfortunately...

Information on 2013 iMac FD issue / USB2-3 Issue and Driver Incompatibility issue

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