The Art Of Sound
Level 6 (12,117 points)

Q: Information on 2013 iMac FD issue / USB2-3 Issue and Driver Incompatibility issue

I've created this new thread to outline the THREE different issues currently being discussed in various threads here and elsewhere in the hope of clarifying a few things and cleaning the 'mess' up a little!

 

There are currently THREE specific and different issues that a Mac owner might have in relation to Audio problems.

 

Some Users may well have all three problems at the same time or a combination of any/all of them.

 

Issue #1 - If you own a 2013 iMac with a Fusion Drive fitted then you wil get audio dropouts, clicks and other audio issues.

 

To test, unplug all 3rd party interfaces and test with internal Audio only.  Most people report audio dropout and noise via internal Audio.

 

Status - Wating on a software fix from Apple.

 

Possible temporary workaround options -

 

1) Boot from an External HD, (Very effective with a high reported success rate) and wait until fix is issued by Apple.

2) Split the FD into separate SSD and Mech Drives... (Fairly effective... but not as good as the ext drive menthod it seems)  and wait for fix from Apple.

3) Contact Apple and ask for a non FD replacement iMac (when/if possible)

4) Wait for the Apple Fix

 

Issue #2 = If you use a USB2 device/interface/whatever and it is connected to a USB3 port then that device might have problems.

 

Note: This issue does not affect Firewire devices for obvious reasons...

 

Possible Workarounds - Note: Users have reported varying levels of success with these fixes depending on the USB2 device in question. and what else is connected to your Mac.

 

1) Use a USB2 powered hub. Connect device to powered hub and connect powered hub to USB3 port

 

2) Use a Thunderbolt hub. Conect device to TBolt hub and hub to TBolt port on Mac.

 

Status - Waiting on fixes from the makers of these USB2 devices to correct the problem where possible.

 

Issue #3 - Incompatible drivers/hardware with either 10.9 and/or 10.8. Affects mainly audio interfaces that use drivers to communicate with your Mac... but can also affect USB2 Midi interfaces and Audio interfaces those that are supposed to be 'class compliant' and therefore do not use drivers... Class compliant devices have been fixed in the past by firmware updates whenever possible, by the makers of the device. In some cases however, makers of certain USB2 devices have not been able to correct the issue and have released new versions of their hardware to reolve issue (which of course were not provided as free replacements for users with these probmatic devices!)

 

Workaround

 

Roll back to previous working OS X version whenever possible and wait for updated drivers from Maker of your device.

 

Status - Awaiting updated drivers from the Makers of the USB2 device.

 

As can be seen from the above list, it is possible that certain users who have a 2013 imac with an FD fitted and own a USB2 interface could be subject to all three issues... and you should be keenly aware of this fact. When Apple release a fix for Issue #1 you may still have problems relating to either/both Issue #2 and #3... depending on the USB2 device you own....

 

Important Note:

 

Please feel free to ask questions regarding these three issues and their descriptions but try not to clutter up the thread with other problems or posts regarding comments such as  "Why isn't Apple/Maker of device fixing this?"  or "I'll switch to "Name of other DAW" if this isnt fixed soon..."  as frankly no one here cares about such things as none of us work for Apple

 

Thanks!

Logic Pro X, OS X Mavericks (10.9), Motu UltraLite V3

Posted on Dec 12, 2013 2:59 PM

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Q: Information on 2013 iMac FD issue / USB2-3 Issue and Driver Incompatibility issue

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  • by Robert Martin 1,

    Robert Martin 1 Robert Martin 1 Jan 2, 2014 3:17 PM in response to idfalk
    Level 6 (8,040 points)
    Jan 2, 2014 3:17 PM in response to idfalk

    ArtOfSound, I DO thank you for consolidating, analyzing, filtering and getting all this data into one place. It does help streamline the process. Hopefully, the issues will soon be fixed with software/firmware updates for the various problems. I remember the problem with the high frequency whine in the original iPod that nearly drove me crazy. So many red herrings in trying to nail that one down, including a lot of people who couldn't hear it and thought I was nuts. But, it got fixed with a software update. So, the more organized we stay, the better off we are.

     

    Bob

  • by The Art Of Sound,

    The Art Of Sound The Art Of Sound Jan 2, 2014 3:21 PM in response to Robert Martin 1
    Level 6 (12,117 points)
    Jan 2, 2014 3:21 PM in response to Robert Martin 1

    Bob,

     

    If you care to show me a post from someone who has an SSD and not a Fusion Drive..  and has the Audio Issue related to Fusion Drives, I will happily stand corrected... but as far as I am aware, there have been none.... that were not tracked down to being a USB 2/3 related problem..or a User error/Non 10.9 compatible drivers installed.

     

    As to your own FW/TBolt non audio related problem, I cannot recall your issue. Would you again, care to point me in the right direction so I may refresh my memory please?

     

    For the record... I have a 2013 iMac with a Mech Drive and now a 2013 iMac with a SSD and I have had absolutely no issues with either of them regarding Audio using my Motu FW Ultralites and other devices from the Motu range....

  • by idfalk,

    idfalk idfalk Jan 2, 2014 3:26 PM in response to The Art Of Sound
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 2, 2014 3:26 PM in response to The Art Of Sound

    Well then. I´ll report back after the old swictcharoo. Enjoyed your Hans Zimmer variation by the way. Thanks again. Good night.

  • by Robert Martin 1,

    Robert Martin 1 Robert Martin 1 Jan 2, 2014 3:30 PM in response to The Art Of Sound
    Level 6 (8,040 points)
    Jan 2, 2014 3:30 PM in response to The Art Of Sound

    Art,

     

    I have read them, but have neither the time nor the energy to find and vet them. Which led me to my 100% statement. As far as my FW/TB experience, it was a 2TB Seagate Fw800/USB3 drive that I was using a FW/TB adapter to interface. I was getting timeouts on the drive, some of which led to Kernel panics. Taking it offline - no problems. Bringing it back online with a USB cable, it worked fine. Put the FW/TB hookup back, problems. Back to USB...no problem. It's my experience, then, the the FW/TB interface can be wiggy. And I found corroborating posts. Whether this can mess with audio, I don't know. But that's the danger with anecdotal or situational analysis.

     

    Bob

  • by Pancenter,

    Pancenter Pancenter Jan 2, 2014 4:11 PM in response to Robert Martin 1
    Level 6 (10,039 points)
    Audio
    Jan 2, 2014 4:11 PM in response to Robert Martin 1

    Robert, I too have read a few replies here and elsewhere where users still had problems after splitting the drives or booting off an external drive, however... I think these may have been related to neophyte users using too small a buffer, some external hardware not getting enough power and/or using a cheap thunderbolt adapter.

     

    Personally, I think there's something a bit suspect in Apple's USB implementation from time to time, same with Firewire. Incremental updates usually have some changes to the USB/Firewire support software and there's no doubt in my mind that some OS versons work better than others.

  • by The Art Of Sound,

    The Art Of Sound The Art Of Sound Jan 2, 2014 4:28 PM in response to Robert Martin 1
    Level 6 (12,117 points)
    Jan 2, 2014 4:28 PM in response to Robert Martin 1

    As far as my FW/TB experience, it was a 2TB Seagate Fw800/USB3 drive that I was using a FW/TB adapter to interface. I was getting timeouts on the drive, some of which led to Kernel panics. Taking it offline - no problems. Bringing it back online with a USB cable, it worked fine. Put the FW/TB hookup back, problems. Back to USB...no problem. It's my experience, then, the the FW/TB interface can be wiggy. And I found corroborating posts. Whether this can mess with audio, I don't know. But that's the danger with anecdotal or situational analysis.

     

    Funny you should mention that issue......

     

    https://discussions.apple.com/message/20419447#20419447

     

    I meant to update that thread but never got around to it.. but anyhow, the issue came back in 10.8.4 and 5... and was finally resolved for me in 10.9.... Since then I have never had an issue at all.

     

    Seagate actually informed me via an email with their support dept that it was a design problem with their drive's firmware and Apple themselves had modified a routine in 10.9 to resolve the issue for them after much communication flowed back and forth... The newer Seagate drives have a modified firmware to prevent this also happening with earlier OS X versions but I have never been abkle to test for it as I haven't bought one of their more recent drives...

  • by The Art Of Sound,

    The Art Of Sound The Art Of Sound Jan 2, 2014 5:40 PM in response to idfalk
    Level 6 (12,117 points)
    Jan 2, 2014 5:40 PM in response to idfalk

    idfalk wrote:

     

    Well then. I´ll report back after the old swictcharoo. Enjoyed your Hans Zimmer variation by the way. Thanks again. Good night.

     

    Ah.. You are welcome and thank you for taking the time to comment on my music..

     

    Much appreciated!

     

    Nigel

  • by The Art Of Sound,

    The Art Of Sound The Art Of Sound Jan 2, 2014 5:42 PM in response to Pancenter
    Level 6 (12,117 points)
    Jan 2, 2014 5:42 PM in response to Pancenter

    there's no doubt in my mind that some OS versons work better than others.

     

    Now there is an understatement, if ever there was one.......

     

     

     

    Happy New Year Pancenter....

     

    Nigel

  • by Robert Martin 1,

    Robert Martin 1 Robert Martin 1 Jan 2, 2014 7:33 PM in response to The Art Of Sound
    Level 6 (8,040 points)
    Jan 2, 2014 7:33 PM in response to The Art Of Sound

    Thanks for that link. I have a somewhat similar problem (FW/TB) but without all the energy settings stuff. Didn't really seem to make a difference what the sleep settings were. The drive is a couple of years old, so I think it probably falls in line with what you are saying. Using it with my late 2009 iMac under ML or anything was not a problem, but then the TB/FW adapter wasn't involved. This is a fresh issue for me with my now 45-day old computer. I also found I could not use the TB/FW adapter reliably to migrate from my old computer so ended up starting from scratch on the new one.

     

    Anyway, IS there a Thunderbolt native audio interface out there anywhere?

     

    Bob

  • by ilFedeleamato,

    ilFedeleamato ilFedeleamato Jan 3, 2014 5:23 AM in response to The Art Of Sound
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 3, 2014 5:23 AM in response to The Art Of Sound

    I hope that Apple solves as soon possible the great problem about FD and Audio Interface....moreover its impossible change HD in IMac 2013...

    Thank You Art of Sound...

    ando sorry may bad english....

     

  • by idfalk,

    idfalk idfalk Jan 3, 2014 10:49 AM in response to The Art Of Sound
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 3, 2014 10:49 AM in response to The Art Of Sound

    Hello again,

     

    Just checking in to let you know that I have now received clearence to return the iMac FD that arrived two days ago. Applecare (Sweden/Finland) was extremely helpful and understanding to my/our situation and the return was of the no-questions-asked variety. At the same time, I ordered another unit (since they opted to fully reimburse me), this time the same specs but for the drive, which is going to be the 1 TB SSD.

     

    I have also notified them via e-mail of this thread and other like it, and adviced them to pur pressure on whatever developers and engineers are working on this issue, as it seems to be systemic and massive. I will also e-mail RME to hear their side of the story, to get more educated.

     

    For a moment, I actually thaught about getting the black waste basket, also known as the Mac Pro. But alas, my alchemy skills seems to be somewhat sub-par.

     

    If you dont mind, Nigel, I have another question for you concerning HDD infrastructure. Maybe I could PM you here?

     

     

    //Alexander

  • by The Art Of Sound,

    The Art Of Sound The Art Of Sound Jan 3, 2014 10:52 AM in response to idfalk
    Level 6 (12,117 points)
    Jan 3, 2014 10:52 AM in response to idfalk

    Alexander,

     

    Glad to hear Apple treated you properly under these circumstances...

     

    There isn't a PM capability here I'm afraid...

     

    but if you wish to email me, please do so via my user name without spaces @mac.com

     

    Cheers..

     

    Nigel

  • by idfalk,

    idfalk idfalk Jan 3, 2014 10:54 AM in response to The Art Of Sound
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 3, 2014 10:54 AM in response to The Art Of Sound

    Just realized it. I will e-mail you. Thanks.

  • by Robert Martin 1,

    Robert Martin 1 Robert Martin 1 Jan 3, 2014 11:05 AM in response to idfalk
    Level 6 (8,040 points)
    Jan 3, 2014 11:05 AM in response to idfalk

    It occurred to me that the black wastebaskets actually resemble those thing used to keep boats from crashing into docks. They are usually strung along a rope between the boat and the dock...

     

    Bob

  • by The Art Of Sound,

    The Art Of Sound The Art Of Sound Jan 3, 2014 11:05 AM in response to idfalk
    Level 6 (12,117 points)
    Jan 3, 2014 11:05 AM in response to idfalk

    My Apologies...

     

    Please email me at  theartofsoundstudio (at) me (dot) com

     

    I forgot I had to disable that older email address a few weeks ago....

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