Hardware or Software Problem?? "Hang" Time issue

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Level 1

20 points

Hardware or Software Problem?? "Hang" Time issue

I have no definitive answer or resolution thus far for this
problem in the forums and wanted to re-summarize it here, one more time, to see if anyone has
any other suggestions before i toss in the towel on self-repair efforts and invest in Apple Service.

Problem:
On a dual MDD G4 1.25, which i normally boot/use OS 9 on)
there is now a system 'hang time' of anywhere from 15-25 secs. in various circumstances including:

On boot-up, just after the Finder has loaded, I can move the mouse cursor but the Mac won't respond to clicks for up to 15-20 secs. Then, the "buffered clicks" get executed at once.

This hang time also occurs within certain applications, and on startup of IE Explorer there is an abnormal delay between the Open command and completion of startup cycle(opening to Home Page).

At first it appears a system freeze, but then ultimately system interactivity resumes eventually.

This machine is on a high-end Tripp-Lite power conditioner in a recording studio.

The problem seemed to begin after a day where i had multiple power fluctuations/outages requiring cold reboot several times.

I have swapped out both 512 Dimms and tried running with each separately and the problem remained.

TechTools has been run, OSX Permission Repairs run/re-run..
and i've done an OS 9-only "restore/reinstall" of that
System. I also ran a defragmentation off of techtools.
Memory 'tested' as okay.

My internal HD is a 160g, one partition.

Since the problem occurs within OS 9 and i did reinstall that system, i would tend to think that rules out the System.

I can't detect any similar problem under OSX!

Things tried that didn't resolve it:

Emptying Servers Folder in the System Folder. Desktop Rebuild, PRAM/NVRAM resets, VM Off, Extensions OFF restart, (no change), Startup Items Folder/Prefs Folder EMPTIED and restart; no change. All Devices (USB/Firewire & Cable Modem, Keyboard/Mouse) disconnected/Restart; no change.

MemTest run on Dimms; Reported as OK.

Is there any point in reinstalling Sys software given all
this, or any ideas on what else to try?

Thanks,

Mike

G4 Dual Boot 1.25 MDD, Mac OS 9.2.x, OS 9.2.2

Posted on Jul 19, 2006 1:32 PM

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Answer 1

Best reply

The hatter

Level 9

60,990 points

Jul 19, 2006 3:02 PM in response to MIKEinMICH

A. Invest in a UPS to go with your line conditioner.
B. Run Apple Hardware Test
C. PMU reset and/or reset-nvram in Open Firmware.

Are you working off one drive? two? same bus or separate?

Might want to zero your drives, even invest in a couple new drives (Hitachi T7K250 160GBs $72 each OWC but out of stock) or something similar. Even Maxtor 300GB 16MB cache are nice.

If memtest says RAM is ok, that helps. Best test for RAM there is for consumers.

You've reinstalled programs from install disks?
Tried with fresh preferences?
Latest version of TTP for Classic OS 9? for OS X? (4.5.1 beta is pretty good).

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Answer 2

MIKEinMICH Author

Level 1

20 points

Jul 19, 2006 4:10 PM in response to The hatter

A. Invest in a UPS to go with your line conditioner.

B. Run Apple Hardware Test
C. PMU reset and/or reset-nvram in Open Firmware.<<

Hi and Thanks. Yes a UPS is on order.

As to resolving the existing problem, I have performed
Steps B and C. The problem was unchanged.

<div class="jive-quote">

Are you working off one drive? two? same bus or separate?<<</div>

One 160g drive (same bus, one large partition).

Might want to zero your drives, even invest in a couple new drives (Hitachi T7K250 160GBs $72 each OWC but out of stock) or something similar. Even Maxtor 300GB 16MB cache are nice.<<</div>

So this could in fact be symptomatic of a damaged HD?

This is the major step I have not taken as of yet. Reason
being, given that OSX seems to function without issues,
I questioned why OS 9 would behave erratically on the same
HD.

If memtest says RAM is ok, that helps. Best test for RAM there is for consumers.<<</div>

Yes, a couple of memtest tests have "okayed" the Dimms.

You've reinstalled programs from install disks?

Tried with fresh preferences?<<

Applications/Programs have NOT been reinstalled because it
does not seem to be appliation-related. The problem appears on boot-up with the new 'hang' time after desktop appears, per previous description. It manifests with similar delayed processing periods in certain applications also. Hence I
surmise it to be Hardware or System vs application-specific.

Prefs have been replaced by way of trashing ALL prefs from the original System Prefs folder at the time System 9 was
reinstalled and subsequently using a Temp-Prefs folder to
remove them all and reboot. With NO prefs, the identical
problem appeared during the startup completion process.

Latest version of TTP for Classic OS 9? for OS X? (4.5.1 beta is pretty good). <<</div>

Yes, using the latest version of Tech Tools and it has been
run on the OSX application but there is no feature (that I
found) within TTP that allows one to choose ONLY the System 9 Folder (not on TechTools 4+ versions). It boots only as,
and in, OSX.

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Answer 3

The hatter

Level 9

60,990 points

Jul 21, 2006 5:32 AM in response to MIKEinMICH

OS X, just like OS 9, can have extension and startupitem conflicts, and both have Safe Boot with shiftkey held down to help isolate 3rd party software.

Modifying OS X with "haxies" to change the look and behavior often cause problems with an OS X update.

Always preferable to have OS X and 9 on their own partition.

And to always have a backup/clone of your hard drive(s).

OS 9 use to hang on the desktop / menubar being shown sometimes with extension conflict, sometimes when there was an old/out of date firmware on a PCI card.

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Answer 4

Jul 21, 2006 6:30 PM in response to The hatter

Is it a hard freeze oe a spinning beach ball freeze?

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Answer 5

Jul 21, 2006 6:57 PM in response to MIKEinMICH

Hello! This sounds like a file directory problem with the drive. At startup when it starts to mount the drive it reads a lot form the disk just like it does at an app launch. I would highly suspect the drive. Whether it can be reformatted or if it's dying I don't know but for years I've used Norton with OS9 to keep my drives up and running. (Can't use Norton with OSX ....that's a no no). I'd do a low level format on the drive to lock out bad sectors and reinstall everything. Tom

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Answer 6

MIKEinMICH Author

Level 1

20 points

Jul 22, 2006 11:15 AM in response to Forrest McElfresh1

Forest, this is a 'temporary seize' where it's as if the
system is 'catching up' to commands - as such, it is
(in the case of OS 9 ) a 'wristwatch' freeze. The Desktop appears, but, as mentioned, it is a lag where only the cursor can be moved, but not able to select anything - or do anything from any input device - until ultimately things resolve to
allow mouse click/keyboard functionality. Hence not so much a freeze (well, a temporary one) but more an abnormal 'hang time' that was not there prior to the stormy day/multiple power outage/restarts per original post info.

thanks!

mike

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Answer 7

MIKEinMICH Author

Level 1

20 points

Jul 22, 2006 11:27 AM in response to Thomas Bryant

Much appreciated! Even though the problem only is apparent within the OS 9 System, reformatting the HD wasthe 'last resort' thing that i'd been putting off since i wasn't sure whether it could be a hardware issue when erratic behavior was only happening in OS 9 and not evident in
the OSX System on the same drive.

That said, i will try a full zero-out of the HD and system...

I just hope that i will get an accurate "read" on the integrity of the Drive from diagnostic testing/prep prior
to reformatting it and reinstalling everything on it.

Hate to rebuild everything on a defective HD. (How can
i....be sure..?

In any event thanks for the confirmation that it may well be the Drive.

That's sorta the key thing i've been seeking the answer
to.

Thanks!

Mike

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Answer 8

Jul 25, 2006 9:35 PM in response to The hatter

Hatter:

There's a WC message for you.

Gary

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