Doug Lerner2
Level 4 (1,079 points)
Desktops

Q: The value of the HDMI port?

I am debating whether to get a MacBook Air or MacBook Pro.

 

There are the usual considerations: cost, weight, retina display or not, etc.

 

One that has me wondering if it is worth considering is the presence of the HDMI port on MacBook Pro, which is not present on the MacBook Air.

 

That's the port I would use to hook up to, say, a projector for giving a demo. Or to a larger screen, right?

 

I notice there is an adaptor for this for the MacBook air for just $28. So naturally I'm wondering if this is even an issue I should worry about in making my decision.

 

Any other "really important stuff" I'm not considering while weighing my decision?

 

My main computer will probably remain my iMac (late 2009). But if the specs are good enough, I might consider just using the laptop with, perhaps a larger screen at home. Or I may just use the laptop when on travel, or out doing demos or teaching.

 

Thanks!

 

doug

iMac, Mac OS 9.0.x, iMac (21.5-inch Late 2009, 12 GB)

Posted on Dec 21, 2013 1:35 AM

by PlotinusVeritas,Solvedanswer
PlotinusVeritas PlotinusVeritas
Level 6 (14,811 points)
A:

Hows Japan!        I had BOTH for a few weeks, still have the Air.

 

 

but id frankly call the NEWEST Pro a "macbook Air with Retina display" , or

 

Maybe a “macbook Air PRO with Retina display” 

 

Yes, you can get a HDMI dongle for $30 for the Air..However if you have an Apple TV, theres no real need for it. Just wifi Airplay movies and vids to your AppleTV hooked to your TV.

 

Either the Air or the new Pro are so much more light weight than youre used to, youre gonna love it either way.

 

DETAILED bench tests between the new AIR and the new PRO here:

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/11/how-to-choose-13-inch-macbook-air-vs-13-i nch-retina-macbook-pro/2/

 

 

Have some other folks weigh in,,....but Ive got some good comparison info below:

 

 

 

 

 

The newest macbook Pro is essentially a larger macbook Air with Retina display and options for speed in increasing prices up to an independent graphics and quad core processor.

 

both Air and new Pro now have PCIe SSD and permanent RAM.

 

The Air is the lightweight portable form factor, fast to boot and shut down, but with longer battery life than any of the macbook pro in 13"

 

Now the new macbook Pro and macbook Air are extremely close in form factor and nature.

 

both have 802ac wifi

both have permanent RAM, no superdrive

both are slim profiles and SSD

 

The only real differences now are (in the most expensive Pros) faster processors and quadcore processors and top end model autonomous graphics, also HDMI output on the new macbook Pros!. ....and of course the retina display

 

 

both are now "very good for travel"

 

Other than features the form factor of the Air and Pro are VERY close now,....so now its merely a matter of features and price more than anything.

 

 

You need an external HD regardless of what you get for backups etc.   Drop into an Apple store and handle both and make your choice based on features, such as Retina or non-retina, .... both at a distance now look like the same computer.

 

The Pro weighs more, ....but nowhere near what it used to just a month ago on the older macbook Pros

 

The NEW macbook Pro is a different creature entirely than the older macbook Pro, .....the new Pro is thicker than the Air,

 

Instead of Air vs. Pro now,.....its really a smooth transition from Air to pro without comparing say, 2 different creatures, now its like contrasting a horse from a race horse (rough analogy)

 

Either one in 8gig of RAM (preferably)... the 4gig upgrade costs very little,  the I7 you will notice only 15% faster on heavy applications over the I5, and NOTHING on most APPS.....I5 has longer battery life.

 

 

As you see below, the non-Retina 13" AIR is 82% of the Macbook with Retina display in resolution

 

there is no magical number of pixels per inch that automatically equates to Retina quality.

http://www.cultofmac.com/168509/why-you-might-be-disappointed-by-the-resolution- of-those-new-retina-display-macs-feature/

screenshot_530.jpg

 

 

A huge internal SSD isnt a game changer for anything, you need an external HD anyway

 

what you WONT READ on Apple.com etc. is that the larger SSD  are much faster due to SSD density

 

"The 512GB Samsung SSD found in our 13-inch model offers roughly a 400MB/s increase in write speeds over the 128GB SanDisk/Marvell SSD"

http://blog.macsales.com/19008-performance-testing-not-all-2013-macbook-air-ssds -are-the-same

 

 

Here is an excellent video comparison between the 11” I5 vs. I7 2013 Macbook Air.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDqJ-on03z4

 

 

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7113/2013-macbook-air-core-i5-4250u-vs-core-i7-465 0u/2

 

I5 vs. I7 performance 13” Macbook Air 2013

 

Boot performance

  1. 11.7 I5 ……11.4 I7

  Cinebench 

  1. 1.1 I5….1.41 I7

IMovie Import and Opt.

  1. 6.69 I5….5.35 I7

  IMovie Export 

  1. 10.33 I5…8.20 I7

Final Cut Pro X

  1. 21.47 I5…17.71 I7

  Adobe Lightroom 3 Export 

  1. 25.8 I5….31.8 I7

Adobe Photoshop CS5 Performance

  1. 27.3 I5…22.6 I7

screenshot_184.jpg

 

 

Reviews of the newest Retina 2013 Macbook Pro

 

13”

Digital Trends (13") - http://www.digitaltrends.com/laptop-...h-2013-review/

LaptopMag (13") - http://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/lap...play-2013.aspx

Engadget (13") - http://www.engadget.com/2013/10/29/m...-13-inch-2013/

The Verge (13") - http://www.theverge.com/2013/10/30/5...ay-review-2013

CNet (13") - http://www.cnet.com/laptops/apple-ma...-35831098.html

 

 

15”

The Verge (15") - http://www.theverge.com/2013/10/24/5...w-15-inch-2013

LaptopMag (15") - http://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/lap...inch-2013.aspx

TechCrunch (15") - http://techcrunch.com/2013/10/25/lat...ok-pro-review/

CNet (15") - http://www.cnet.com/apple-macbook-pro-with-retina-2013/

PC Mag (15") - http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2426359,00.asp

Arstechnica (15") - http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/10...-pro-reviewed/

Slashgear (15") - http://www.slashgear.com/macbook-pro...2013-26303163/

 

 

 

 

Macbook Pro ports:

screenshot_574.jpg

 

 

Macbook Air (13") ports:

screenshot_575.jpg

Posted on Dec 21, 2013 1:55 AM

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Doug Lerner2

Q: The value of the HDMI port?

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  • by Doug Lerner2,

    Doug Lerner2 Doug Lerner2 Dec 23, 2013 12:18 AM in response to PlotinusVeritas
    Level 4 (1,079 points)
    Desktops
    Dec 23, 2013 12:18 AM in response to PlotinusVeritas

    The only thing I use mine for is for sometimes offloading images from a better-than-an-iPhone-camera I have.

     

    doug

  • by PlotinusVeritas,

    PlotinusVeritas PlotinusVeritas Dec 23, 2013 12:22 AM in response to Doug Lerner2
    Level 6 (14,811 points)
    Dec 23, 2013 12:22 AM in response to Doug Lerner2

    if you snag a nice camera, then see how handy the SD card slot is

     

    heres pics of the NIFTY drive, fits flush

     

     

    http://gadgetynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/MacBook-Nifty-MiniDrive.jpg

     

     

  • by Doug Lerner2,

    Doug Lerner2 Doug Lerner2 Dec 23, 2013 12:30 AM in response to PlotinusVeritas
    Level 4 (1,079 points)
    Desktops
    Dec 23, 2013 12:30 AM in response to PlotinusVeritas

    Interesting. Not sure what it is useful for though. If they are really inexpensive, backing up and offloading old data maybe?

     

    doug

  • by PlotinusVeritas,

    PlotinusVeritas PlotinusVeritas Dec 23, 2013 12:32 AM in response to Doug Lerner2
    Level 6 (14,811 points)
    Dec 23, 2013 12:32 AM in response to Doug Lerner2

    good for fast swapping files

     

     

    really useful if you have a SD card to lightning dongle  so you can upload pics or stuff to your Ipad

  • by Doug Lerner2,

    Doug Lerner2 Doug Lerner2 Dec 23, 2013 12:34 AM in response to PlotinusVeritas
    Level 4 (1,079 points)
    Desktops
    Dec 23, 2013 12:34 AM in response to PlotinusVeritas

    The site says "up to 64 GB" but is maddingly vague about the specs. For $39.99 do you get 64 GB? It doesn't specically say so.

     

    doug

  • by PlotinusVeritas,

    PlotinusVeritas PlotinusVeritas Dec 23, 2013 12:40 AM in response to Doug Lerner2
    Level 6 (14,811 points)
    Dec 23, 2013 12:40 AM in response to Doug Lerner2

    No its $60 for a 64 gig

     

    39 for a 32gig

  • by Doug Lerner2,

    Doug Lerner2 Doug Lerner2 Dec 23, 2013 1:00 AM in response to PlotinusVeritas
    Level 4 (1,079 points)
    Desktops
    Dec 23, 2013 1:00 AM in response to PlotinusVeritas

    I see. Thanks.

     

    So where is my new computer already? It mus be at least 2 hours since it was ordered.

     

    doug

  • by PlotinusVeritas,

    PlotinusVeritas PlotinusVeritas Dec 23, 2013 1:25 AM in response to Doug Lerner2
    Level 6 (14,811 points)
    Dec 23, 2013 1:25 AM in response to Doug Lerner2

    LoL.     Santa is stuck in traffic downtown LA and Rudolph has a flat tire

  • by Doug Lerner2,

    Doug Lerner2 Doug Lerner2 Dec 24, 2013 6:28 PM in response to PlotinusVeritas
    Level 4 (1,079 points)
    Desktops
    Dec 24, 2013 6:28 PM in response to PlotinusVeritas

    Quick advice requested!

     

    The organization did not order my computer yet. Instead, they are going to transfer the amount for the computer to my bank account today and I'm going to order it myself directly from the Apple Japan site.

     

    So my question is, it it worth it for me to pay an extra ¥20,000 ($192) and get 16 GB of RAM instead of the standard 8 GB of RAM?

     

    The model I'm getting is:

     

    13" MacBook Pro Retina display

    2.6 Ghz dual core i5 processor

    512 GB SSD

    8 GB RAM (currently)

     

    I half-considered moving up to the 15", but since this will not be my daily work machine, and since the 15" is substantially more expensive with 512 GB of RAM and noticeably heavier, I decided to try the 13" this time and go for more portability.

     

    In the store, I really liked the weight of the MacBook Air, and could already notice the difference of 1/2 lb in weight between that and the 13". But the overall specs of the 13" seemed so much better than the MacBook Air for just $150 more I decided I could live with the weight. And it's 1/2 the weight of my old late 2006 17" MBP! But if I moved up to the 15" the weight would start getting heavy again, and the cost would end up being a LOT more if I wanted the 512 GB SSD. So I think I'm sticking with the 13" unless there is a powerful argument otherwise.

     

    So I am just wondering if the 16 GB RAM is worth it.

     

    Thanks!

     

    doug

  • by PlotinusVeritas,

    PlotinusVeritas PlotinusVeritas Dec 24, 2013 6:46 PM in response to Doug Lerner2
    Level 6 (14,811 points)
    Dec 24, 2013 6:46 PM in response to Doug Lerner2

    No major photo or video editing (you didnt indicate likewise earlier)?  Then no.

     

    On 90% of APPS you wouldnt even notice the diff. between 2 and 4gig of RAM (neither are options in those models of course).

     

    Collective consensus here is (and I agree) that 8gig costs next to nothing from 4gig and 8gig is a "must" .

     

    However as to 16gig for another $200, I would say certainly no.

     

    Running a 16gig machine here now, and on 95% (or more) of APPS I use (even light photoshop edits) I cant tell a difference between an old machine with 2gig and this machine running 16gig of RAM

     

    Thats not to say, of course there isnt a difference to be sure in many things, but between what you (seem to indicate) mention as likewise to myself, then no.

     

     

     

     

     

    Looking back on all you said, the closest you came to indicating your usage was:

    So in practice, I probably won't use it much.    it entices me to switch to using it as my main work computer. But I would need a bigger monitor in that case.

     

     

    You didnt mention what if any serious vid editing or photo editing you did or other heavy tasking applications...

     

     

    even still 16gig is 'pushing it' on justification for everyday use.

     

    You also mentioned that cost seemed to be a mild factor for yourself

     

    As you know you cant add the RAM later.

     

    16gig would be vital for video rendering and photoshop etc. layering (and proc. cores),.....most common applications havent become more RAM needy in almost 4 years.

     

     

    The one big plus side for extra RAM is that, when sold used 2/ 3/ 4 years down the road, same as Macbook Air with permanent RAM,...used costs generally fetch 150% of RAM upgrade costs than at time of purchase.

  • by Doug Lerner2,

    Doug Lerner2 Doug Lerner2 Dec 24, 2013 7:23 PM in response to Doug Lerner2
    Level 4 (1,079 points)
    Desktops
    Dec 24, 2013 7:23 PM in response to Doug Lerner2

    So basically your answer is yes and no.

     

    What I notice on my iMac late 2009 with 512 GB 5400 rpm HD and 12 GB of RAM are slowdowns often when I'm switching between apps - particular to Excel. I'm guessing that might be helped a lot by the SSD vs ordinary HD.

     

    The other time I notice slowdowns is if I use Parallels Desktop and have Windows VMs open. Since I use VMs for testing, it occurs to me that in that case "the more RAM the merrier." But again, I don't open VMs every day. More like once a week.

     

    Since I'm not a designer (I'm a programmer) I don't do a lot of photo editing. Just casual stuff for personal use.

     

    I do tend to have lots of apps open at once. Right now there are 23 apps open. Yet Activity Monitor is only reporting an App Memory use of 4.54 GB at the moment, and the "memory pressure" very low. It does say 10 GB of the 12 GB is "used" though.

     

    I don't know. Your argument about the reselling cost is a good one. And $192 - you can waste that on a night out at a New Year's party in Tokyo.

     

    Maybe thinking 2/3/4 years down the road and resale value (especially since you can't add it later) I'll just go for it. I would not pay extra for the dual core i7, because I honestly, truly don't think it will make any noticeable difference at all. But the extra RAM conceivably could. But I guess considering what 8 GB vs 16 GB might look like in 2018 it might be worth it.

     

    And after all, that is all I am paying. The organization is covering the rest of the cost.

     

    Pause to check…

     

    Uh oh. If I choose the standard 8 GB RAM it will ship within 1 day. If I choose 16 GB RAM it will ship in 2-3 weeks. The first class is on January 5th. I guess that makes the decision for me. Oh well. Not so important I guess.

     

    doug

  • by PlotinusVeritas,

    PlotinusVeritas PlotinusVeritas Dec 24, 2013 7:44 PM in response to Doug Lerner2
    Level 6 (14,811 points)
    Dec 24, 2013 7:44 PM in response to Doug Lerner2

    I heard you can waste that kind of money on a 2 mile cab ride there.

     

    Yes, I figured the 16gig would take longer to get.

     

    Why didnt you say someone else was paying for most of it?   Gopher it!  LoL.

     

     

    Mavericks ( I assume youre using) has diff. employment of the RAM than Mountain Lion does. So RAM use is higher , but is better managed.

     

     

    I was saying 80% No,....and 20% yes based upon not knowing what/ how you use your machine and how tight the total cost is,and that 90% of APPS most people use everyday have no need (even many open at once) for 16gig of RAM.

     

     

     

    heres the info on Mavericks RAM use differences:

     

    Mavericks is designed to use RAM differently for good reason. Normal

     

    http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/06/12/compressed-memory-in-os-x-109-maverick s-aims-to-free-ram-extend-battery-life

     

     

    Mavericks uses RAM much more efficiently than any other previous version of OS X. Mavericks now has a memory compression feature that will compress the memory occupied by applications that aren't being actively used and give the freed up RAM to the application that needs it the most.

     

    Memory Pressure graph that tells you how stressed is the system in terms of memory.

     

     

    Fore more information about OS X Mavericks new system management technologies visit:

     

    http://www.apple.com/osx/advanced-technologies/

     

     

    See page 5 here:

     

    http://images.apple.com/media/us/osx/2013/docs/OSX_Mavericks_Core_Technology_Ove rview.pdf

  • by Doug Lerner2,

    Doug Lerner2 Doug Lerner2 Dec 24, 2013 8:03 PM in response to PlotinusVeritas
    Level 4 (1,079 points)
    Desktops
    Dec 24, 2013 8:03 PM in response to PlotinusVeritas

    Yes, somebody else is paying for it. I could have gotten a 15" if I wanted it, but decided this was the right balance of weight and so on. Anyway, I asked them if 184,800 yen was ok and they said yes. I probably could have asked for more, but didn't want to be greedy since they are a low-budget non-profit. So anyway, just personally, I wouldn't feel right asking for more, so figured anything extra I would just pay for myself.

     

    I could even go for a 15" if I wanted to at this point. But the costs really do start piling up at that point.

     

    Anyway, I haven't pressed any buttons yet.

     

    The neck, as you see, with getting the 16 GB version is that there is a 2-3 week delivery time on it. But for the 8 GB version if I order today it will arrive on Friday.

     

    I need it for a course I'm giving starting January 5th, so ordering the 16 GB version is a tad too risky. It might arrive on time. But it might not... Usually things arrive ahead of promised schedule here, so I might take a chance. But if I don't have the computer by the 5th it would be ... awkward...

     

    doug

  • by PlotinusVeritas,

    PlotinusVeritas PlotinusVeritas Dec 24, 2013 8:22 PM in response to Doug Lerner2
    Level 6 (14,811 points)
    Dec 24, 2013 8:22 PM in response to Doug Lerner2

    being the impatient type, I wouldnt wait. lol.  Sounds like its the 8gig I5 Macbook Pro

     

    santaletter-copy.jpg

    screenshot_616.jpg

     

     

    warm wishes

     

     

    Ho Ho MacPro  

  • by Doug Lerner2,

    Doug Lerner2 Doug Lerner2 Dec 24, 2013 8:25 PM in response to PlotinusVeritas
    Level 4 (1,079 points)
    Desktops
    Dec 24, 2013 8:25 PM in response to PlotinusVeritas

    This is what the memory currently looks like on my iMac running Mavericks now with 12 GB of RAM installed and just about everything I would normally have open open.

     

    doug

     

    memory.png

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