Multi Keyboard Sustain Pedal Problem

Question

Level 1

6 points

Multi Keyboard Sustain Pedal Problem

Hi all

I currently use 2 controllers, each of these has a sustain pedal attached - so far so good. Each keyboard is a USB one and is plugged into a separate port directly on MBP. All software is latest versions.

For months this has worked perfectly but recently it is doing something strange and I can't figure out why or what has triggered the change. In layout mode I can see both sustain pedals working fine and separately as they should. When I go to Edit or Perform screens however the sustain pedals work as they should in terms of holding the relavant notes ie they are physically doing what they should but for the on screen icons it is a different story.

When I press the pedal attached to Keyboard1 the onscreen icon changes as it should, when I press only Keyboard2 sustain pedal both on screen icons change.

I have checked the ouput of the keyboards and it is correct so I can't work out why this is happening - anyone any suggestions?

As I say it is just the onscreen activity that is weird the correct notes are being held, I'm just worried it is indicative of something else.

Thanks for any help as its driving me nuts.

Cheers

Steve

MacBook Pro with Retina display, OS X Mavericks (10.9.1), 2.6Ghz i7, 16Gb Ram

Posted on Jan 7, 2014 12:09 PM

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Answer 1

DaCaptain

Level 4

1,048 points

Jan 9, 2014 5:45 AM in response to asylumweb

I'd take away those sustain pedals in the workspace. It's just clutter. Removing it solves most sustain problems, because the workspace objects ae proxies. And if you exchange the instrument in a channel strip, sustain doesn't work anymore, because the target the sustain proxy is pointing to, is invalid. If you remove the sustain object, the sustain message goes straight to the instrument.

HTH,

DaCaptain

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Answer 2

asylumweb Author

Level 1

6 points

Jan 9, 2014 5:54 AM in response to DaCaptain

Hi

Thanks for the reply, I suppose I could take them of the layout screen but to me that just seems to be hiding the problem not fixing it. I have to say I often edit patches and channel strips and I have never had the sustain cease to function.

The annoying thing is that this has worked since the first version of Mainstage and I have used it every week since then, it has just recently been doing this.

Cheers

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Answer 3

cronbg

Level 1

10 points

Jan 9, 2014 1:31 PM in response to asylumweb

On which MIDI channels are your controllers transmitting?

I have found that in MS 3.0.2, the graphic response of Screen Controls which are assigned to CC64 (sustain) seems to only work correctly in Edit mode and Perform mode, if they are assigned to channel 1.

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Answer 4

asylumweb Author

Level 1

6 points

Jan 9, 2014 2:25 PM in response to cronbg

Both USB controllers are plugged into their own port on the MacBook and both are on channel 1

Cheers

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Answer 5

aerol

Level 3

555 points

Jan 10, 2014 4:29 PM in response to asylumweb

I can see this beaviour if one of the sustain pedals isn't assigned correctly. Just for yuks, go into Layout mode and relearn the assignments to each of the sustian pedals.

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Answer 6

asylumweb Author

Level 1

6 points

Jan 10, 2014 4:55 PM in response to aerol

I actually created a completely new blank setup from scratch today, placed 2 keyboards, 2 sustain and 2 expression pedals. Assigned everything in the layout mode - all fine, they light up when they should and are totally independant.

As soon as I go to edit or perform mode the left sustain pedal (Key1) works fine and shows onscreen correctly and the right sustain pedal (Key2) physically works ie it holds Key2 and only Key2 but highlights itself and the left pedal.

Very bizarre and never had this before - just can't figure it out, same keyboards, same pedals, same cable all in the same holes!!!

Cheers

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Answer 7

Jan 11, 2014 7:00 AM in response to asylumweb

I have had the same experience as asylumweb. I tried to figure it out, but was just happy e pedals behaved as expected even if the screen didn't.

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Answer 8

cronbg

Level 1

10 points

Jan 19, 2014 11:27 AM in response to asylumweb

I have just noticed a very similar error with Pitch and Mod wheels!

I use two keyboards, each having Pitch and Mod wheels. My lower keyboard is sending on MIDI channel 1, my upper keyboard is sending on channel 2.

So the wheels are sending:

upper Pitch: channel 1, CC 0

upper Mod: channel 1, CC 1

lower Pitch: channel 2, CC 0

lower Mod: channel 2, CC 1

In Edit mode, I see the following behavior: If I use the Pitch or Mod wheels on the upper keyboard, everything works as expected. If however I use the Mod wheel on the lower keyboard, the respective Screen Controls for both Mod wheels move on the screen. Similarly, if I use the Pitch wheel on the lower keyboard, both Screen Controls for Pitch move!

As in your case, the functionality seems fine, meaning that the MIDI data gets actually routed to the correct destination. It's just the graphic representation of the Screen Controls which is faulty.

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Answer 9

Jan 19, 2014 12:04 PM in response to cronbg

you don't have one of them set to a Channel 1, but the other set to Channels 1-16 under the atributes of the virtural controls?

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Answer 10

cronbg

Level 1

10 points

Jan 19, 2014 12:11 PM in response to CalebGrayson

CalebGrayson wrote:

you don't have one of them set to a Channel 1, but the other set to Channels 1-16 under the atributes of the virtural controls?

No, they are specifically assigned to either channel 1 or 2.

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Answer 11

aerol

Level 3

555 points

Jan 19, 2014 2:01 PM in response to cronbg

How many channel strips to do have in the patch. I'm suspecting just 1. If that's the case the CC's coming in from the 'wrong' keyboard aren't assigned to a channel strip. If you add a second strip and in the MIDI Input tab set to to receive from second controller I expect this issue will stop.

Another thing you can do is to display the Assignment and Mappings tab and uncheck the 'Send Unassigned MIDI to all channel strips' and that should also stop it.

Without an 'assignment' the data goes to all.

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Answer 12

cronbg

Level 1

10 points

Jan 19, 2014 2:31 PM in response to aerol

Thank you for these suggestions. Unfortunately they don't solve the problem.

There are patches with multiple channel strips, using both keyboards.

The "Send Unassigned MIDI to all channel strips" option is unchecked.

Just to clarify: The problem is not that any MIDI data is going where it shouldn't go. The routing is working correctly. It is only the graphic representation of the Screen Controls which doesn't make sense.

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Answer 13

shattre

Level 1

34 points

Jan 22, 2014 1:15 AM in response to asylumweb

I believe there is more to it than that, though the nature of your setup only exposes the GUI problems. I've noticed this behavior too, however it's accompanied by a few actual routing problems that I believe are related. My setup is such that I often have CSs set to receive on various midi channels. I've recently noticed that SOME VIs seem to not receive pedal data if it's a channel other than 1, even if the VI itself is set to omni. I've not experienced this problem in any other host or DAW, and I use others extensively. I can solve this by choosing the "multimbral..." CS setting, and then routing the internal routing back to channel 1 inside the CS. However, this won't work the moment the pedal is actually linked to any function. It's also annoying and took me a while to figure out, wasting some rehearsals in fact. I have not upgraded to 3.0.2 yet, as I'm still hearing but reports and MS is way too central to my gig setup to take chances.

But it is very clear, there's some bad pedal behavior going on. I don't know if it's caused by a recent OS update or what, but it's cropping up everywhere.

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