Q: Why should anyone upgrade to Mavericks when 30% of the user feedback on the download site describes horrific results and rates Mavericks 1 out of 5???

Hi Pete,

If you follow the link to my thread, you will find an  Etracheck output there. It is from the safe mode boot though...

Here is a report right now from the "clean" install partition on an external hard drive:

EtreCheck version: 1.9.12 (48)

Report generated June 20, 2014 at 8:12:58 PM PDT

Hardware Information:

  MacBook Pro (15-inch, Late 2008) (Verified)

  MacBook Pro - model: MacBookPro5,1

  1 2.53 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo CPU: 2 cores

  4 GB RAM

Video Information:

  NVIDIA GeForce 9400M - VRAM: 256 MB

  NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT - VRAM: 512 MB

System Software:

  OS X 10.9.3 (13D65) - Uptime: 0 days 20:46:4

Disk Information:

  Hitachi HTS543232L9SA02 disk0 : (320.07 GB)

  EFI (disk0s1) <not mounted>: 209.7 MB

  Macintosh HD (disk0s2) /Volumes/Macintosh HD: 319.21 GB (97.27 GB free)

  Recovery HD (disk0s3) <not mounted>: 650 MB

  MATSHITADVD-R   UJ-868 

USB Information:

  Apple Inc. Built-in iSight

  Western Digital My Book 1140 3 TB

  EFI (disk1s1) <not mounted>: 314.6 MB

  Big Mavs (disk1s2) / [Startup]: 900 GB (875.36 GB free)

  Recovery HD (disk1s3) <not mounted>: 650 MB

  Install OS X Mavericks (disk1s4) /Volumes/Install OS X Mavericks: 49.87 GB (44.35 GB free)

  Big Mavs Deep (disk1s5) /Volumes/Big Mavs Deep: 2 TB (1.58 TB free)

  Recovery HD (disk1s6) <not mounted>: 650 MB

  Apple, Inc. Apple Internal Keyboard / Trackpad

  Apple Computer, Inc. IR Receiver

  Mitsumi Electric Hub in Apple Extended USB Keyboard

  Logitech Apple Optical USB Mouse

  Mitsumi Electric Apple Extended USB Keyboard

  Apple Inc. BRCM2046 Hub

  Apple Inc. Bluetooth USB Host Controller

Gatekeeper:

  Mac App Store and identified developers

Problem System Launch Daemons:

  [failed] com.apple.ucupdate.plist

Launch Daemons:

  [not loaded] amsdstat.plist Support

User Login Items:

  iTunesHelper

Internet Plug-ins:

  Default Browser: Version: 537 - SDK 10.9

  QuickTime Plugin: Version: 7.7.3

Audio Plug-ins:

  BluetoothAudioPlugIn: Version: 1.0 - SDK 10.9

  AirPlay: Version: 2.0 - SDK 10.9

  AppleAVBAudio: Version: 203.2 - SDK 10.9

  iSightAudio: Version: 7.7.3 - SDK 10.9

iTunes Plug-ins:

  Quartz Composer Visualizer: Version: 1.4 - SDK 10.9

3rd Party Preference Panes:

  None

Time Machine:

  Time Machine not configured!

Top Processes by CPU:

      1% WindowServer

      0% fontd

      0% System Events

      0% imagent

Top Processes by Memory:

  270 MB WindowServer

  193 MB com.apple.WebKit.WebContent

  127 MB Safari

  70 MB Finder

  53 MB SystemUIServer

Virtual Memory Information:

  58 MB Free RAM

  1.58 GB Active RAM

  1.53 GB Inactive RAM

  378 MB Wired RAM

  1.13 GB Page-ins

  286 MB Page-outs

10.9 has been a mixed bag for me and I have been using a Mac since OS9.  For me, my main complaints come from Finder and Mail.  After speaking with support, they also feel like these 2 areas are the most problematic.  Mail works "ok" but is buggy and has serious issues closing down.  Finder's problem is Apple's SMB.  So while Finder and your mac might seem totally "awesome" at your home, if you try to use it in a working environment with various kinds of file servers, you will loose your mind.  I actually have been learning to get efficient with Windows again so I don't get stuck in my workflow anymore on my Mac.  Windows 8.1 is perfectly stable, has strong granular options, MS Office 2013 is brilliant, and networking is fast and spot on.  On my mac, I'm testing out Airmail, Path Finder (as a Finder replacement), and looking to replace Apple's SMB with the open source SMB.  I feel like Apple has become the new MSFT and MSFT just works.  I have a Windows 8.1 virtual machine running one of my Hyper-V hosts, and it's always there when I get stuck on my Mac or need real excel or word.  I actually find myself working on that side more and more and Mac has become my use at home or on the road machine.  Hope that Yosemite is better, but seems like Apple has forsaken it's technical user base for the bigger profits of it's iOS users.  If 10.10 is more of the same, I'm going to change my desktop at the office to the PC like the rest of my company.  I'll take my iMac home and thats that... done struggling. 

itsamacthing wrote:

 

10.9 has been a mixed bag for me and I have been using a Mac since OS9.  For me, my main complaints come from Finder and Mail.  After speaking with support, they also feel like these 2 areas are the most problematic.  Mail works "ok" but is buggy and has serious issues closing down.

Whereas on my Macs (7) mail is fast, consistent and shuts down in 0.35 seconds, also when I asked Apple how come it is so good they just told me that "they're all like that"

Funny how that goes

Genuinely happy for you...

And on my 4 Macs Mail runs differently, depending on how it's used.  On my main rig, late 2012 iMac I have various accounts from gmail and exchange to iCloud.  It does not handle that well at all.  On a Mini of mine, with only iCloud, it's fine.  Again, depends on what kind of user you are.  Apple more and more is super for the basic user, but for the more advanced user, it's core rotten.  And please, don't take my word for it, just go to google: apple mail mavericks problems

As far as SMB issues, don't take it from me, read a znet article: you will need to google for it: mavericks-smb2-problem-and-fixes-7000022519  and the hundreds of other articles out there about SMB, SMBX and Mac OS. 

My read speeds are fine, close to 1GB, but the write speeds are not usable at 1MB.  I have a hard time opening up network shares from within excel or word, so i have to save to my desktop and then copy to the network.  It's not an acceptable workflow and huge waste of time.  This is why I end up doing my work on the PC so I don't have loose work and can make sure I save it quickly and to the right place. 

I love Apple, but i'm also pragmatic and just want to get my work done.  I'm tired of being told that this is a bug, or that can't be fixed, or you can save to the network with the next update. 

SMBX is at the center of what is wrong with MacOS.  Apple NEEDS to go back to the open source SMB, which is now at version 4.  Mavericks just took Apple from 1 to 2, but Apple is not using the open source standard that used to be their claim to fame when OS X was launched.  While a majority of Apple users are just doing whatever in their own little environment, a lot of us are in networked environments and Apple's home-brew SMB doesn't cut it.

Mail needs true cross account support without cr*ping out. 

itsamacthing wrote:

 

Genuinely happy for you...

 

And on my 4 Macs Mail runs differently, depending on how it's used.  On my main rig, late 2012 iMac I have various accounts from gmail and exchange to iCloud.  It does not handle that well at all.  On a Mini of mine, with only iCloud, it's fine.  Again, depends on what kind of user you are.  Apple more and more is super for the basic user, but for the more advanced user, it's core rotten.  And please, don't take my word for it, just go to google: apple mail mavericks problems

No need to Google, the same posts existed with ML and Lion, only the OS name changed.

And the fact that 4 Macs all behave differently points to an outside cause rather than some systemic 'bug'

I use Exchange and iCloud with no issues whatsoever, and I have a rule. I only use mail systems that are standards compliant, so Google and other proprietary methods are out. Maybe that's why life is so trouble free?

So we wil disagree ...

So you are happy and peaceful because you don't have a gmail account.  I will remove my gmail accounts and see how mail works.  Till then, I'm very happy with what I see in Airmail so far, it's a far more robust email client with a ton of features and options.  And seems to handle all sorts of accounts just fine. 

Does your "rule" also apply to an OS?  Since OSX is not standards compliant with it's SMB support. 

Yes, Airmail is an excellent client for Gmail, less so for Exchange and iCloud I found. But easily the best client for Gmail is Mailplane, it was written specifically for Gmail and works in the same odd way. It obviously is not Standards compliant and doesn't even bother to accommodate other email systems, it's Gmail only.

If I used Gmail I would choose an appropriate client, but I use it purely as a testing aid (and I send my junk there)

Airmail so far is handling my iCloud and Gmail just fine.  Outlook can also handle various types of email accounts with a hiccup.  I also have Mailplane and have used that for many years.  Less so recently as gmail is really where I send junk, but still need it around for emails from various places I am signed up with.  Yes, mailplance is only for gmail, that's the point of the app and Ruben does a great job at developing it.  Mail.app is made for iCloud and moms (no offense mom).  I have recently started to public Outlook 2013 via RemoteApp from one of my Server 2012 R2 virtual machines just so I can have a real email client on my Mac.  Outlook 2014 for the Mac is released this year, can't wait. 

Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world of open source standards.  Apple is a perfect example of that. 

I agree, email has really not improved much since it first appeared on the scene. Still not possible to send an email with a good chance of the recipient seeing it as the sender intended.

But other forms of communication will replace it (already are to some extent) so it may never fully develop and I'll just get more out of touch

At the end of the day, I run my own Exchange 2013 server, and have been managing/designing enterprise class networks since 1998.  I have zero email issues, just 1 client issue.  Apple has always had a weak spot with networking and email clients. 

I manage a lot of systems, and have built my own macs for learning purposes from writing my own kext files and plists, to more.  I know the Mac OS inside and out, and I know Macs inside and out.  I'm the guy everyone calls for support... I know a bug when I see one.  Apple has assigned bug ID's to a lot of the bugs I have found. 

Mail has enough bugs that cause it to be unstable and not so great for business critical email, SMB and Finder do not work correctly in a business environment.  It's common knowledge and while I can get mine to work... it doesn't mean it's working to a level that can match other solutions out there. 

It doesn't matter if you agree or not with me, I respect your opinion and enjoy this, but I am a senior system op and there are plenty of other people on my level who all feel the same way. 

Dinner time! 

Just thinking and since there is no way we are going to get all the different vendors and OS types to agree upon a single set of standards, the winer is going to be the one who can handle and manage all of these variables.  The jack of all trades, who can quickly adapt to new environments.  Right now, that's MSFT and Linux with no excuses.  The big cat who is a one trick pony eventually goes extinct.  ***** for us....

There used to be this great marketing campaign Apple had highlighting all the open source solutions that Mac OS used.

itsamacthing wrote:

 

At the end of the day, I run my own Exchange 2013 server

And I host a 2010 Exchange server for my own company, and unlike you I have no client issues. I don't however do Windows clients, even for employees who want them so I am pretty dependent on Mail and have been for a long time. (Always on Exchange and whatever Apple have available, from iTools to iCloud)

It seems that the other issue has to do with accessing Windows shares, and I do not do Windows so (to me) inconsequential.

My mail.app clients work, but it's buggy and acts unreliable and that might very well be the gmail account

If you had more experience outside of just Apple clients then you would have a better comparison between mail.app as a client and the other solutions.  I'm not closed minded or stuck with one system.  I will use what is best for my company for our productivity.

Try Outlook 2013 on exchange and then get back to me... or just keep on keeping on in what you think is a perfect little environment.  While Apple is light years ahead of the rest in many areas, I don't know a single person who's impressed with mail.app.. it's certainly not their best work.  And  MS's watered down Outlook 2011 is still better and more business class than mail.app

And as as far as networking is concerned, we need real gigabyte network speed... Apple's network speed is 90% slower than windows on the same LAN.  

I said that I don't do Windows, never said a word about only having experience of Mail.

Perhaps you could stick to what I actually said when quoting me?

As for Windows clients I care not what is going on in that unsafe unreliable world that Microsoft made (but Outlook is particularly horrible, I must say) I don't 'do' Windows, and neither do my vendors or clients.

itsamacthing wrote:

 

I love Apple,

 

itsamacthing wrote:

 

I actually have been learning to get efficient with Windows again so I don't get stuck in my workflow anymore on my Mac.  Windows 8.1 is perfectly stable, has strong granular options, MS Office 2013 is brilliant, and networking is fast and spot on.  On my mac, I'm testing out Airmail, Path Finder (as a Finder replacement), and looking to replace Apple's SMB with the open source SMB.  I feel like Apple has become the new MSFT and MSFT just works.  I have a Windows 8.1 virtual machine running one of my Hyper-V hosts, and it's always there when I get stuck on my Mac or need real excel or word.  I actually find myself working on that side more and more and Mac has become my use at home or on the road machine.  Hope that Yosemite is better, but seems like Apple has forsaken it's technical user base for the bigger profits of it's iOS users.  If 10.10 is more of the same, I'm going to change my desktop at the office to the PC like the rest of my company.  I'll take my iMac home and thats that... done struggling.