KeepingUpWithApple

Q: Library Size, Platform and Chasing My Tail

I'm more than a bit frustrated with my photo management.  I have had multiple libraries in iPhoto and have now combined them into a large library in Aperture.

 

I have a lot of pics. from family and children events, etc.  I'd estimate around 30k. 

 

I don't do too many projects but i do find I am bringing up iPhoto more frequently b/c the change over to Aperture never seemed to matter much and since I barely do anything, my brain hasn't switched over to the subtle (and language) differences...I download pics from my camera or I access something from the photo stream.  My computer crashes every few days after I have used one of the photo apps.

 

I understand I can turn these into smaller libraries (not sure that will actually solve the issues) but WHHHHHHYYYYY should I really have to?  I would have thought that after all this time, hardware and explosive digital growth, Apple would have smoothed this out.

 

If I recall, only my active library is the one that is accessed from my AppleTV, my iTunes syncing, etc.  In other words, splitting into multiple libraries brings additional complications in limiting my Apple platform experience.

 

I am open to a third party app...but I am skeptical to how that will affect my access to pics via my devices, iTunes, et al.

 

As I try to explore these issues on line, I see a lot of ideas but I have had difficulty finding ideas or answers that speak to these multiple criticisms.

 

So, no particular question but some griping that I am hoping someone might have some insights for me that might make my digital life easier.

 

Thanks!!!

iMac (20-inch Mid 2007)

Posted on Jan 13, 2014 11:25 AM

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Q: Library Size, Platform and Chasing My Tail

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  • by léonie,

    léonie léonie Jan 13, 2014 12:13 PM in response to KeepingUpWithApple
    Level 10 (107,884 points)
    iCloud
    Jan 13, 2014 12:13 PM in response to KeepingUpWithApple

    I have had multiple libraries in iPhoto and have now combined them into a large library in Aperture.

     

    I have a lot of pics. from family and children events, etc.  I'd estimate around 30k.

    Aperture should be able to cope with a library of this size, no problem. There is no reason to split the lbrary.

     

    There must be something wrong with your setup, but it is hard to say, what. We need more nformation about your setup, to find the reason for the crashes. Tell us a bit more:

    • What is your Aperture version? And your MacOS X version?
    • How much free disk space do you have? Is your Aperture library on your system drive or on an external drive?
    • When do the crashes occur? You are saying "After using one of the photos apps". So Your mac crashes, after you quit Aperture?
    • Is there an error message with the crashes? When did this start? After you imported new photos? After you updated r installed software? Do you use plug-ins with Aperture?

     

    Regards

    Léonie

  • by KeepingUpWithApple,

    KeepingUpWithApple KeepingUpWithApple Jan 15, 2014 4:38 PM in response to léonie
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Applications
    Jan 15, 2014 4:38 PM in response to léonie

    Thanks for your interest.

     

    I will answer all of your questions in a moment but first let me say that I think I may of confused two issues and see what I can do to clarify here.

     

    First, the libraries (usually loaded via iPhoto) is usually extremely slow to load (vs other programs) and response time to trying to do stuff is very sluggish.  My initiative was to basically give up iPhoto in favor of Aperture going foward but impediments have included the fact that other programs default to iPhoto such as scanning and downloads.  I actually recombined my broken libraries into a single with great enthusiasm when the two library formats were effectively brought together as one.  And once the program (iPhoto) is up, I am mentally comfortable to stay and use what has been familiar (it would be easier to transition if Apple had a setting to have all programs treat iPhoto preferences as Aperture instead).  On top of that, with Aperture's different method of organizing, I want to again make my system run as friendly and expansive (e.g., access to/compatible) with my iDevices and ATV, etc.  These are the crux of my issues.

     

    Now to the crashing I threw in and confused the primary issue...so, I have a noticed over the course of the past couple of years (perhaps longer) that upon returning, my computer screen would be dark and simply not respond to mouse or keyboard input.  I can not recall ever working on my computer and it simply going black and not responding, rather it would appear to someone that it was having trouble coming out of sleep or something.  Pressing and holding the power button is the only thing that now works...before (maybe under 10.8), I would have to physically unplug the machine.  The challenge is that I have tried to isolate when this happens.  First, it happened a few times a week under 10.8.x (probably 10.7, too) and sometimes multiple times a day.  It usually occurred after I had been away for some time or over night.  Other times, I might be away for 30-90 minutes and find I was frozen out as described.  However, I would sometimes go a couple of weeks without an incident.  The correlation seemed to be iPhoto.   I tried to make sure I closed it when I was done, keep it closed and then it would still happen hours or days later.  It wasn't a perfect correlation 'cause it seemed to also happen if I hadn't used photo app.  Despite all the updates, the problem persists.

     

    I spoke with the Apple Geniuses and they were sure I had to rebuild or reinstall the OS and NOT do a TM restore.  That sounded painful and fraught with unintentional consequences.  I figured I'd simply wait for Maverick.  The problems continue.  I don't know if the trouble is inate to these photo systems (which it seems it should not be) or if I really do need a rebuild.  Meantime, everyone likes to bash library sizes which I always felt was a bit "lazy" but maybe not.

     

    I was at the Apple Store last month for an unrelated issue and overheard someone complaining about slow response, tough to manage, etc., and the Apple employee said the person needed to split librarys or buy a Mac Pro (ha) for the better computing power.  He "laughed" at the 20k-30k file concept as being a bad way to manage.  Is it wrong to want this to work like their commercials and fairly consistent to how people really work?

     

    So, let's see what info I still need to answer:

     

    * OSX 10.9.1; iPhoto 9.5.1; Aperture 3.5.1 (as you can discern from above, I have generally kept these programs up to date). 

     

    * Computer:

    Model Identifier:          iMac10,1

      Processor Name:          Intel Core 2 Duo

      Processor Speed:          3.06 GHz

      Number of Processors:          1

      Total Number of Cores:          2

      L2 Cache:          3 MB

      Memory:          16 GB

      Bus Speed:          1.07 GHz

      Boot ROM Version:          IM101.00CC.B00

     

     

    *  322 GB available of a 1 TB HD.  The library is 88 GB

     

    * No plug-ins.

     

    So, lots of detail here.  I hope I have stimulated yours or someone else's thoughts.

  • by Najinsky,Helpful

    Najinsky Najinsky Jan 15, 2014 11:59 PM in response to KeepingUpWithApple
    Level 3 (670 points)
    Jan 15, 2014 11:59 PM in response to KeepingUpWithApple

    I too had a computer that refused to wake up from sleep (and also randomly stopped responding to the keyboard and mouse when I plugged in an external drive to USB). These issues were resolved with a firmware update. If you search, you'll see not waking up from sleep is a periodic theme, with occasional firmware updates to resolve it.

     

    However, others have reported similar issues that were resolved by removing old software for things that plugged into the USB ports (mice, graphics tablets, HDs, calibrators, cameras, TV cards, internet cards, extention hubs, etc, etc).

     

    If you have already installed any firmware updates that are available for your machine, this is probably why you were being advised to do a clean re-install, to get rid of old software traces that don't play nicely with the current OS. It's not a nice option, but hunting down mis-behaving hidden software can be challenging for many users and the re-install is often the simpler route. However, there's no guarentee the bad software wont return when you restore your data and Apps, so it's really not a nice option to contemplate. Especially if you use lots of software.

     

    If you think it's possible your Mac has a lot of crud lying around from history, it might be worth investing in a cleaner app. But you need to be careful here as there is a lot of junk software sold under the premise of being Mac optimisers, but in reality they may be spyware, malware or simply just junk.

     

    CleanMyMac 2 seems to have been quite favourably reviewed by some respected publications, such as MacWorld: http://www.macworld.com/article/2036159/review-cleanmymac-2-removes-unnecessary- files-to-free-up-storage-space.html

     

    Also for any old software or hardware, it's well worth checking the makers websites for details of how to fully uninstall the software, including things like drivers/system extensions that can still get left behind when you simply drag the Application to trash.

     

    I'll put some specific thoughts about your Aperture iPhoto situation in a different post.

     

    Andy

  • by Frank Caggiano,

    Frank Caggiano Frank Caggiano Jan 16, 2014 5:36 AM in response to KeepingUpWithApple
    Level 7 (25,796 points)
    Jan 16, 2014 5:36 AM in response to KeepingUpWithApple

    DO not under any circumstances install  CleanMyMac

     

    See http://www.businessblogshub.com/2013/03/watch-out-for-cleanmymac-2/ for one users experience with this 'cleaner' app.

     

    You do not need to run any of these so called 'cleaner applications' on OS X.

     

    regards

  • by léonie,Helpful

    léonie léonie Jan 16, 2014 6:34 AM in response to KeepingUpWithApple
    Level 10 (107,884 points)
    iCloud
    Jan 16, 2014 6:34 AM in response to KeepingUpWithApple

    *  322 GB available of a 1 TB HD.  The library is 88 GB

    That is a reasonable library size, and Aperture should be able to handle it.

     

    Aperture (and iPhoto) need a moment to launch, because they have to read the internal databases. Some library items take longer to load than others. I would not quit aperture, when browsing a book or a slideshow. Opening these items take longer.

    Disable the option "Share XML .." in Aperture's Preferences > Preview tabs, see:  Aperture 3.5: Set "Share XML with other applications" to "Never" for better performance and faster quit times

     

    It might help, to open Aperture's Activity window, after launching Aperture. Then you will see, if Aperture is doing any background processing that is slowing it down.

     

    But now I am a bit confused by your answer. Is your main concern with Aperture or with a general sluggishness of your Mac?

  • by Najinsky,

    Najinsky Najinsky Jan 16, 2014 7:26 AM in response to Frank Caggiano
    Level 3 (670 points)
    Jan 16, 2014 7:26 AM in response to Frank Caggiano

    Frank Caggiano wrote:

     

    You do not need to run any of these so called 'cleaner applications' on OS X.

     

    regards

     

    Nonsense.

     

    I could link to any of probably hundreds of support queries where the problems being encountered were due to old software which had been only partially removed and was causing a conflict. I've also had first hand experience of it so I know it happens.

     

    Where I'm fortunate is I'm somewhat of a geek and can track these down. Most users are not and need help. Help which in this instance Apple has been unable to supply.

     

    I understand the context of your comment, that there is a lot of fake optimisation software out there to prey on unknowing users. That's why I linked to a bonafide review from a respected publication like MacWorld. Why you choose to take the word of a no-name blogger (which could easily be from a competitor or author of an inferior product) over a respected publication like MacWorld is your business.

     

    MacPaw seem like a legitimate software company to me, with multiple awards from recognised names in the Mac marketplace.

     

    http://macpaw.com/about

     

    I have no association with them.

  • by léonie,

    léonie léonie Jan 16, 2014 7:58 AM in response to Najinsky
    Level 10 (107,884 points)
    iCloud
    Jan 16, 2014 7:58 AM in response to Najinsky

    Andy, have you looked at what "CleanMy Mac 2" promises to do?

     

    Optimize Your iPhoto Library

    Every time you change an image in iPhoto, its modified copy appears in your library and the original is hidden by iPhoto. CleanMyMac 2 finds those hidden files and lets you remove them to free up more disk space for other useful items without harming your iPhoto collection.
    Requires iPhoto 11 (version 9+)
    An in-depth look at iPhoto cleanup features ▸

    It actually replaces the originals in Photo Libraries by the edited version, like the old iPhoto Diet did. After the introduction of the unified Library this caused a lot of trouble. Quite a few OPs in the iPhoto forum had to restore their iPhoto libraries from backup or to reimport the previews to fix the iPhoto library.

     

    I am wary of this program, i.e. the automatic mode, where you let it run unattended.

     

    You are right, that uninstalling incompatible apps can be tricky, if you have to do it manually and do not know, what needs to be uninstalled. But then running the  manufacturer provided uninstaller would be safer.

    --Léonie

  • by Frank Caggiano,

    Frank Caggiano Frank Caggiano Jan 16, 2014 9:15 AM in response to Najinsky
    Level 7 (25,796 points)
    Jan 16, 2014 9:15 AM in response to Najinsky
    Nonsense

     

    Really, do you have CleanMyMac installed on your system? Have you used it especially with photo libraries? Have you tried to un-install it using their un-installer program?

     

    Many apps get glowing reviews, even MacKeeper gets recommendations. They mean nothing, either they are being paid or have not actually used these apps.

    I could link to any of probably hundreds of support queries where the problems being encountered were due to old software which had been only partially removed and was causing a conflict. I've also had first hand experience of it so I know it happens.

    This is true,you install poor software then you will run into this problem, which is one of the faults of CleanMyMac. If an app does not have a installer that works then that app is one step up from malware.

     

    I understand the context of your comment, that there is a lot of fake optimisation software out there to prey on unknowing users. That's why I linked to a bonafide review from a respected publication like MacWorld

    Reviews are meaningless unless you know the full background of the review and reviewer.

     

     

    Why you choose to take the word of a no-name blogger (which could easily be from a competitor or author of an inferior product) over a respected publication like MacWorld is your business.

     

    There is other information regarding this app that I can;t link to here. There is also personal experience. Again I ask have you installed and used CleanMyMac? One item in the terms of use for ASC is that all solutions give should be ones that you have personally tried out on your own system.

     

    So install it use it for a while and try to un-install it, completely then post back.

  • by Najinsky,

    Najinsky Najinsky Jan 16, 2014 9:49 AM in response to léonie
    Level 3 (670 points)
    Jan 16, 2014 9:49 AM in response to léonie

    Leonie, I agree. My advice was to use manufacturer uninstalls where available. CleanMyMac2 was cited as an example of a user runnable app to clear junk from the system. I wouldn't class my iPhotos originals as Junk and therefore wouldn't use that part of the App. But there are other parts that can identify unclean uninstalls and that might help. Or other similar apps that don't touch iPhoto, but I already gave ample warning that caution was needed in the slection of such an App.

     

    As I see it, the issue is this:

     

    The computer won't wake from sleep/power save. This requires a forced power down, which is the most likely cause of corruption in application data for those applications that were open when the force power down is made.

     

    iPhoto is misbehaving, so it's not a huge leap to suspect that corruption from forced power downs is potentially causal.

     

    Fixing the corruption is not the solution, it's merely treating a symptom. Unless the forced power downs can be eliminated, and the system made stable, corruption will continue to occur.

     

    Something is stopping the computer waking up. This is a recurrent problem, and when it's an Apple issue they usually realease firmware to resolve the issue. As I already said, if all firmware updates have been applied then the problem lies elsewhere, and buggy software comes into the frame. I've seen it all first hand, it's a real issue

     

    Macs are for people who want to do creative stuff with their computer, not spend their time learning how to maintain and debug it.

     

    'Macs takes care of themself' really isn't proving too much help for the OP. His Mac isn't taking care of itself, it's misbehaving. The Apple store genius has recommend a complete re-install, without reverting to the TM backup. Is that a productive and creative use of time? And for what, because some GPS tracker or graphics tablet didn't catch on and the software got abandoned, but didn't come with an uninstaller because 'Macs don't need them'?

     

    The OP isn't getting many options. He's faced with the prospect of doing a clean install, locating all software and serials, backing up all data seperately from time machine (and getting it back into his apps), all the preferences and settings, any hardware drivers and probably numerous updates since release. And that assumes a full recovery is even possible. If the original is not Mavericks compatible and can't be installed, then the Mavericks compatible update can't be installed, perhaps requiring purchase of new software. Or badly thought out licence registrations that will prevent reregistering the software.

     

    It's really not a nice scenario to be facing, and if genuine software exists that may resolve the issue by removing the left over junk that could be causing the issue, it might be worth a shot.

     

    Andy

  • by Najinsky,

    Najinsky Najinsky Jan 16, 2014 10:22 AM in response to Frank Caggiano
    Level 3 (670 points)
    Jan 16, 2014 10:22 AM in response to Frank Caggiano

    Frank Caggiano wrote:


    One item in the terms of use for ASC is that all solutions give should be ones that you have personally tried out on your own system.

     

    So install it use it for a while and try to un-install it, completely then post back.

     

    Frank, get off my case.

     

    This is what I wrote:

    If you think it's possible your Mac has a lot of crud lying around from history, it might be worth investing in a cleaner app. But you need to be careful here as there is a lot of junk software sold under the premise of being Mac optimisers, but in reality they may be spyware, malware or simply just junk.

     

    CleanMyMac 2 seems to have been quite favourably reviewed by some respected publications, such as MacWorld: http://www.macworld.com/article/2036159/review-cleanmymac-2-removes-unnecessary- files-to-free-up-storage-space.html

     

    Also for any old software or hardware, it's well worth checking the makers websites for details of how to fully uninstall the software, including things like drivers/system extensions that can still get left behind when you simply drag the Application to trash.

     

     

    Andy

     

    <Edited By Host>

  • by Frank Caggiano,

    Frank Caggiano Frank Caggiano Jan 16, 2014 10:44 AM in response to Najinsky
    Level 7 (25,796 points)
    Jan 16, 2014 10:44 AM in response to Najinsky

    I'm sorry if you feel I am on your case. I am just trying to help out the OP (or anyone coming along to this thread later) and prevent him or her from causing more problems for themselves.

     

    From all personal experience and reports CleanMyMac is to be avoided. Again I would suggest that you try it out and make your own judgment. Recommending something that can have adverse affects on a users system without first testing it personally is wrong regardless of what the TOU have to say.

  • by SierraDragon,

    SierraDragon SierraDragon Jan 16, 2014 11:26 AM in response to KeepingUpWithApple
    Level 4 (2,695 points)
    Jan 16, 2014 11:26 AM in response to KeepingUpWithApple

    Nothing in your hardware description or workflow jumps out at me as problematic. The now old Core2Duo boxes like yours are much slower than newer i-series boxes, but 16 GB RAM should help ameliorate that. I do not think CPU speed is your problem, and certainly 30k images is nothing to Aperture.

     

    Pretty much we need to ignore the Apple retail folks. If they had skillsets for the nuances of the heavy pro apps they (with a few exceptions) would mostly not be in retail.

     

    I do think a clean OS install and a clean Aperture install are in order, using the latest versions that Apple warrants will still work perfectly with your old Core2Duo box. The retail folks tend to be very good at helping with new installs, that is their job. Prior to new installs back up working copies of Libraries and all original images to 2 different off-line drives.

     

    However before the PITA of new clean installs, please advise

     

    • how your drives are connected and where the Library lives

     

    • any improvement with a restart and running only Aperture

     

    • any changes running under a new user account

     

    • important: what happens with a new Library?

     

    Also note that your Mac is past the age where it is generally appropriate with heavy pro apps to be considering new hardware. At some point you may want to consider replacing your Mac. And some iMacs can be used as second displays.

     

    Note that I agree that the usage of "cleaner" type apps is almost always inappropriate with OS X.

     

    -Allen

  • by Najinsky,

    Najinsky Najinsky Jan 16, 2014 11:32 AM in response to Frank Caggiano
    Level 3 (670 points)
    Jan 16, 2014 11:32 AM in response to Frank Caggiano

    Well it didn't seem like you are reading the intent with which I am writing. Perhaps I need to  review my writing style.

     

    The purpose of the link was to show that not all uninstall/cleanup apps are conware/spyware/malware/junk. It was in context that caution needs to be exercised in choosing this kind of app, it wasn't any kind of personal recommendation, just a pointer that there are real apps that may help. There's an abundance of reviews for this and others, and a bit of reading will help sort out the serious from the seriously dodgy.

     

    The OP has an issue. There have become real barriers to performing genuinely clean installs, especially on systems that have been upgraded through multiple versions of the OS that makes obsolete our old installers, and make visible the problems of long left behind junk. There is a real and growing need for software to fix and declutter accumalated junk. In an ideal world we wouldn't accumalate the junk, but in the real world it's there and has to be dealt with.

     

    You said it yourself last week, people don't report when stuff works, only when it goes wrong. But it seems it's okay to condem these type of products based on the issues that get reported. A fair number of users in the forum are reporting they are having serious issues with Aperture/Mavericks. Does that now make these malware?

     

    Andy

  • by SierraDragon,

    SierraDragon SierraDragon Jan 16, 2014 12:28 PM in response to Najinsky
    Level 4 (2,695 points)
    Jan 16, 2014 12:28 PM in response to Najinsky

    Andy-

     

    Agreed the issue of built-up detritus in setups can be a significant issue, and IMO it is likely that some of the atypical Aperture problems we see on some folks' boxes may well be caused by accumulated junk code.

     

    Personally I remain unwilling to let some $30 app have its way with cleaning out the dust bunnies from my system. The only apps I trust are Cocktail and Disk Warrior, buts that does not mean other good ones do not exist.

     

    -Allen

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