Wide-gamut displays and Thunderbolt

I returned an ASUS PA279Q wide-gamut monitor because several important advertised functions (Adobe RGB and sRGB modes) were not supported through the Thunderbolt connection on my 2013 MacBook Pro Retina (15”). ASUS support explained to me that the Thunderbolt port output was YUV rather than RBG and their calibrated modes were disabled with that output. The monitor worked perfectly on a 2009 non-Thunderbolt MacBook Air through the mini-DisplayPort.


I am now considering the NEC PA272W but it appears to be the same panel as the ASUS monitor. Could anyone confirm that the NEC can utilize its Adobe RGB and sRGB functions when connected by a mini-DisplayPort cable through a Thunderbolt port?


Or could anyone recommend another wide-gamut display that works for sure through a mini-DisplayPort/Thunderbolt connection…


Would you consider the Apple Thunderbolt Display for critical color work?


Thanks.

Posted on Jan 17, 2014 6:57 AM

Reply
12 replies

Mar 11, 2014 9:52 AM in response to Charles Campbell2

I have the NEC PA272 and all of the modes work with both my MacBook Pro and my old Mac Pro. It's a great monitor and I really love it.


I am able to switch between sRGB and full (Adobe RGB) mode with my MacBook Pro through the Thunderbolt port.


Sorry to hear about the problems with the ASUS because it looked promising, I wanted to recommend it to people because the PA272 is pricey (though it's still cheaper than an Eizo).


Although two monitors may have the same panel, that often means nothing. There are many ways the monitors could still perform differently. NEC and ASUS decide what electronics to drive the panel with, which determines which interfaces will drive the panel; what factory calibration settings to use, what grade of panel to accept (other companies often end up using panels rejected by Apple), etc.


Note that OS X 10.9.2 seems to have screwed up some features of these types of monitors. I have experienced some of these problems.

OS X 10.9.2 Breaks Display Support with NEC Displays: Sleep, 90° Rotation Failure (MacPerformanceGuide.com)


Like that blogger, I am hoping Apple fixes those problems in the next OS X update.

Mar 11, 2014 10:02 AM in response to Charles Campbell2

Charles Campbell2 wrote:


Would you consider the Apple Thunderbolt Display for critical color work?

If you use a good hardware calibrator, sure. It should be good enough for web and press work.


I picked the PA 272 because it is capable of deeper calibration than Apple's monitor (direct hardware calibration of the monitor itself, not just creating a profile), and I use printers that go beyond sRGB so I wanted Adobe RGB capability which no Apple monitor has ever done, and I love the ability to plug multiple Macs into the PA272 and switch between them including its function as a USB KVM switch (again, Apple doesn't support that).


Sure the Apple TB monitor will be fine, but I think it's overpriced for the limited functions it has.

Mar 11, 2014 10:04 AM in response to Charles Campbell2

After verifying with NEC tech support that Adobe RGB and sRGB would be supported via Thunderbolt, I purchased a NEC PA272W, which I've now attached to a new Mac Pro (2013).


The monitor is gorgeous and all modes function appropriately. It has exceeded my expectations.


Good luck with your ASUS. Overall, I thought it was a very good display, but I needed/wanted full Adobe RGB support...


C.

Mar 12, 2014 12:03 AM in response to Charles Campbell2

Charles Campbell2 wrote:


After verifying with NEC tech support that Adobe RGB and sRGB would be supported via Thunderbolt, I purchased a NEC PA272W, which I've now attached to a new Mac Pro (2013).


The monitor is gorgeous and all modes function appropriately. It has exceeded my expectations.

That matches my experience, I really, really like working with the PA272.

Mar 17, 2014 2:49 PM in response to Network 23

Charles and Network23 - As owners of the PA272, I'm hoping you can share some insight.


I am strongly considering the PA272 (clicked Buy more than once, then backed out). I spend perhaps 90% of my time on general purpose work, such as photo editing for web, but not color critical printing. So I am curious how well the sRGB mode works? I've read reports on other NEC wide-gamut monitors that when switched into sRGB mode you lose a bit of luminance, that the reds over oversaturated, and general desktop/browser colors are obviously not "normal". Have you noticed anything of the sort with your new PA272, or in sRGB mode is it still a cream of the crop display?


The PA272 has a number of key features for me: the 2560x1600 native resolution, the built-in KVM switch, DisplayPort, wide-gamut for when I want it,etc. But the only thing holding me back is whether or not I should simply stick with a "normal" gamut range monitor because that is where I'll spend most of my time. Cost is not so much of an issue, i just want the best of both worlds, if it even exists.


Thank you very much for your time and insight.

Mar 18, 2014 7:33 AM in response to chris.dg

I haven't done much with sRGB, but when I was monkeying around with the monitor soon after receiving it, I test printed several photos using the sRGB color space on the monitor and the stock sRGB color space on my Epson R2400 printer (Epson driver (allegedly sRGB), not using Photoshop profiles). The match was excellent. I expect the match on the Web would also be excellent, as long as you are using color management-aware applications/browsers.


I believe the sRGB luminance is, in fact, set lower than the Adobe RGB, but you can adjust it as you wish. Of course, you can profile the monitor yourself as well as use the factory presets.


The PA272W is 2560X1440, not 2560X1600.


Really, it's an outstanding product. It sounds like you could meet your needs with something less expensive, but I'd really be surprised if this display disappointed you.


Good luck.


C.

Mar 18, 2014 11:05 AM in response to chris.dg

chris.dg wrote:


So I am curious how well the sRGB mode works? I've read reports on other NEC wide-gamut monitors that when switched into sRGB mode you lose a bit of luminance, that the reds over oversaturated, and general desktop/browser colors are obviously not "normal". Have you noticed anything of the sort with your new PA272, or in sRGB mode is it still a cream of the crop display?

I have not noticed anything odd about sRGB mode. The problems you mentioned, where colors can look horribly oversaturated or shifted, I have seen (or seen documented by others) when the monitor is in Adobe RGB mode. But that is not the fault of the monitor at all. It is always the fault of the OS or an application not adapted to work with such a wide color space, mistakenly assuming the monitor is sRGB. The colors look fine in high-end graphics apps even when the OS X desktop and web browsers look oversaturated.


But like Charles says, other features compensate for this. For example, the Adobe RGB and sRGB modes are just two of the built-in presets for the (highly accurate and factory verified) internal calibration. But you also get to store a number of your own presets. I do not even use the factory Adobe RGB and sRGB presets. I made two of my own. One I calibrated for "widest possible" gamut for photo work, at a certain luminance, the other an "sRGB emulation" preset at a completely different luminance. Because I didn't agree with the luminance of the factory presets. When you make a preset you can set the luminance, white point, gamut, etc. so if you don't like the factory presets it doesn't matter, just make your own. (Note: I am using the PA272-SV with one of the calibrator devices that actually talks to the internal monitor circuitry, so I am not sure how well this works if you get the more commonPA272 model without it and use a cheaper calibrator that only creates a profile without talking to the monitor.)


The factory Adobe RGB and sRGB presets are very useful if you don't want to get into customizing the color specifications, but any limitations they have are easily understood and remedied if you have some knowledge of color management concepts and have a compatible integrated calibrator.


What you might glean from this is that the true value of the PA272 is if you are an experienced graphics user who knows enough about color to get the most out of the monitor. If you are a casual user who just wants to flip back and forth between sRGB and Adobe RGB once in a while, things might not always work as expected and a more conventional monitors could have been a better deal. If you understand how the PA272 is designed relative to color science, and in terms of how it's an internal calibration compared to the external profiling of most monitors, the sRGB mode makes a lot of sense.

chris.dg wrote:


The PA272 has a number of key features for me: the 2560x1600 native resolution, the built-in KVM switch, DisplayPort, wide-gamut for when I want it,etc. But the only thing holding me back is whether or not I should simply stick with a "normal" gamut range monitor because that is where I'll spend most of my time. Cost is not so much of an issue, i just want the best of both worlds, if it even exists.

Although you said cost is not an issue there seem to be a decent selection of monitors out there that would get you similar features, without wide gamut, for a lot less money. Monitors with that resolution, DisplayPort, pivoting, etc. are now widely available.


One last note: Minor problems have been observed with these monitors in OS X Mavericks. I think they started turning up in 10.9.2. It still performs the same but some things don't work right and it looks like Apple's fault:

OS X 10.9.2 Breaks Display Support with NEC Displays: Sleep, 90° Rotation Failure


Apparently all is needed is for Apple to fix it in the next release, whenever that is. A later post on that same blog indicates that a fix may be coming from Apple. Again, these problems do not stop the monitor from doing its job so if you want one you should still buy it.

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Wide-gamut displays and Thunderbolt

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