Airport Extreme Poor WiFi Performance

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Level 1

70 points

Airport Extreme Poor WiFi Performance

I've been doing periodic bandwidth tests with speedtest.net for several years now. I have an account, so my results are saved. I do them from a Mac Mini and also from my iPad.

The MacMini is hardwired to an Airport Extreme. The iPad is, of course, using WiFi. Usually it is on the 5GHz network, but sometimes (I have no idea why) it selects the 2.4GHz network. The 5GHz network is "n only", the 2.4GHz network is b/g/n. Security is WPA/WPA Personal. The Airport Extreme is on firmware 7.6.1. (I rolled back in December, a couple of months after I noticed the degraded WiFi performance.)

Until mid-October of last year, the results on the iPad were similar to those on the MacMini.

For example:

On October 4 : iPad - 10.27 Mbps; Mini - 11.25 Mbps

On July 21 : iPad - 10.13 Mbps; Mini - 11.39 Mbps

However, beginning with tests done in late October, the results for the iPad are markedly inferior to those of the Mini:

On January 17: iPad - 00.49 Mbps; Mini - 06.14 Mbps

Today : iPad - 00.87 Mbps; Mini - 08.69 Mbps

Oddly, when I switch the iPad to the 2.4GHz network, it does much better: 2.40 Mbps (today) But, still, much worse than before October and much worse than the Mac Mini. All the iPhones in the house are on the 2.4GHz network and get results similar to the iPad. However, none of them have as much test history saved.

I don't think it's a question of interference. None of my neighbors have 5GHz capable routers. On 2.4 GHz, I'm using channel 1. Both of my neighbors with routers are on channel 6. No cordless phones or other cordless devices in this house.

I have recently reset the network settings on both the iPad and iPhone.

So, what did I do to mess up the WiFi on my Airport Extreme?

Posted on Jan 19, 2014 11:37 PM

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Answer 1

Best reply

LaPastenague

Level 9

67,226 points

Jan 20, 2014 1:21 AM in response to Buadhai

What model extreme is it.. A1xxx from the base please??

I would do a factory reset and use all short names, no spaces and pure alphanumeric.

Definitely use WPA2 Personal security. It is the only security optimised for N wireless.

Set fixed channels for wireless, but I recommend you try channels 11, 8, 6, 1 in that order.

Set a different name for 5ghz and set it to 36 40 or 44.. any of those.

Do use the wireless diagnostics if you run Mountain Lion or Mavericks.. it is very useful in the computer to see what is happening.. for ipad there are similar utilities.. but I am ipadless so I am not sure of the name.

https://itunes.apple.com/au/app/network-analyzer-lite-wifi/id562315041?mt=8

It is important to get your link speed to figure out is the issue link or power or noise or what aspect of wireless is going bad.

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Answer 2

Buadhai Author

Level 1

70 points

Jan 20, 2014 2:02 AM in response to LaPastenague

Thanks.

Model is A1408.

I set the 2.4GHz network to channel 8.

I had to leave the 5GHz network to "Automatic" because choosing 36, 40 or 44 prevented both of my Airport Expresses from connecting. They would only connect with "Automatic".

All the names are alphanumeric and short: mgn, mgn5ghz, AirEx, etc.

I disconnected my MacMini's ethernet cable and just used WiFi. As expected, bandwidth decreased from the normal 10Mbps to about 2.8 Mbps.

I did not do a factory reset as family is about to come home and I don't want to be fiddling when they're expecting working WiFi. I'll do it tomorrow.

Here's the Wireless Diagnostics Log:

# --- Check Connectivity

# --- Wi-Fi Interface

Interface Name : en1

MAC Address : 00:24:36:f0:a9:33

Network Name : mgn

Active PHY Mode : 802.11n

Security : WPA2 Personal

SSID : mgn

BSSID : b8:8d:12:63:32:8d

Country : TH

RSSI : -51 dBm

Noise : -89 dBm

Rate : 130 Mbps

Channel : 8

Channel Width : 20MHz

# --- Bluetooth

Power State : On

Paired Devices : 0

# --- Wireless Environment

2.4 GHz Networks : 2

5 GHz Networks : 2

Current Channel Networks : 2

Recommended 2.4GHz Channels : [ 11 6 1 2 3 4 5 7 9 10 12 13 ] 8

Recommended 5GHz Channels : [ 36 40 44 48 153 157 161 165 ] 149

# --- Network Configuration

Primary IPv4 Interface : en1

IPv4 Address : 192.168.0.76

IPv4 Router : 192.168.0.1

Primary IPv6 Interface : None

IPv6 Address : None

IPv6 Router : None

DNS Servers : 192.168.0.1

8.8.8.8

8.8.4.4

# --- Debug Log Entries

01/20/14 16:48:29.6470 Large preferred networks list count <31>

01/20/14 16:48:43.2710 SMTP port check time out

01/20/14 16:48:43.2760 Current Wi-Fi network is an AirPort network

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Answer 3

Jan 20, 2014 4:02 AM in response to Buadhai

There is nothing wrong with the link speed and the power level and noise are all at about expected values.

Now I would like you to copy a file between your devices.. With iPad you will need to use something like filebrowser so you can copy a file from ipad to the computer.. much easier if you have two computers.. try doing it with one computer plugged in by ethernet and the other by wireless.

I also need you to simplify the network..

When you have issues you need to disconnect everything else.. the Express were not mentioned in the first post.

You need just the modem.. and the AE and a couple of computers to test what is going on.

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Answer 4

Buadhai Author

Level 1

70 points

Jan 20, 2014 4:25 AM in response to LaPastenague

I only have one computer. I can copy from computer to iPad, or from computer to hard drive hanging off the Airport Extreme.

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Answer 5

Jan 20, 2014 1:44 PM in response to Buadhai

Buadhai wrote:

I only have one computer. I can copy from computer to iPad, or from computer to hard drive hanging off the Airport Extreme.

Anything.. you are trying to see if the LAN speed is affected. If not the issue is WAN connection and it is possible the WAN connection is caused by some fault in the AE. Or is simply not negotiating speed correctly.

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Answer 6

Buadhai Author

Level 1

70 points

Jan 20, 2014 3:13 PM in response to LaPastenague

I'm really baffled now. I'm going to do a factory reset after my wife goes to work, but in the mean time I did a file copy test. This was a 1.3 GB video file copied from a USB drive hanging off the Mac Mini to an SSD on the Airport Extreme's USB port.

Mac Mini wired to Airport Extreme: 47 seconds

Mac Mini wireless to Airport Extreme: 34 seconds

So, we get this weird result where a wireless LAN file copy is actually faster than a wired copy?

At the same time I did a Speedtest.net bandwidth test:

Mac Mini wired to Airport Extreme: 3.6 Mbps

Mac Mini wireless to Airport Extreme: 7.7 Mpbs

So, opposite result. WAN bandwidth is better when the MacMini is wired rather than wireless.

How can the LAN configuration possibly affect the WAN port bandwidth?

BTW, both of the Airport Expresses are set up to join the wireless network. They are simply clients and do not extend or create a wireless network.

Wireless clients on the LAN include:

Airport Express (2)

AppleTV (2)

iPhone (3)

iPad (2)

MacBook Air (2)

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Answer 7

Buadhai Author

Level 1

70 points

Jan 20, 2014 10:38 PM in response to Buadhai

I did a hard reset of the Airport Extreme and reconfigured it.

I removed all devices from the network except for my Mac Mini (wired) and my iPad.

I ran Speedtest.net

Mac Mini: 8.27 Mbps

iPad (2.4 GHz): 3.52 Mbps

iPad (5 GHz): 2.04 Mbps

I then put the iPad in Airplane Mode and Put the iPhone 4 on the 2.4 MHz network:

iPhone 4: 2.15 Mbps

I also tried with a MacBook Air with both the iPad and iPhone in Airplane Mode:

MBA (2.4 GHz): 3.12 Mbps

MBA (5 GHz): 2.27 Mbps

And, just to make sure the WAN connection hadn't degraded, I ran the test on the Mac Mini (wired) again:

Mac Mini: 8.54 Mbps

As you can see, even with only one wireless device on the LAN, wireless throughput to the WAN is awful while wired throughput to the WAN is normal. I also don't understand why throughput on the 5 GHz network is about 30% worse than the 2.4GHz network.

At this point, I'm at a loss. The only thing I can think of is that the Airport Extreme is broken.

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Answer 8

Buadhai Author

Level 1

70 points

Jan 21, 2014 12:00 AM in response to Buadhai

I noticed that there is an iperf client for the iPad, so I downloaded it.

The iperf server was my wired Mac Mini.

The iperf client was my iPad.

Here are the results:

Interval	Transfer	B/W	BSSID	SSID
0.00-30.04 sec	89.75 MB	25.06 Mbps	B8:8D:12:63:32:8D	mgn
10.06-20.12 sec	33.88 MB	28.26 Mbps	B8:8D:12:63:32:8D	mgn
0.00-10.06 sec	22.50 MB	18.76 Mbps	B8:8D:12:63:32:8D	mgn

Interval	Transfer	B/W	BSSID	SSID
0.00-30.04 sec	129.25 MB	36.09 Mbps	B8:8D:12:63:32:8E	mgn 5GHz
10.06-20.08 sec	43.12 MB	36.08 Mbps	B8:8D:12:63:32:8E	mgn 5GHz
0.00-10.06 sec	43.12 MB	35.98 Mbps	B8:8D:12:63:32:8E	mgn 5GHz

Interesting that with iperf the LAN throughput is better with the 5GHz network whereas WAN throughput is better on the 2.4 GHz network.

Still baffled.

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Answer 9

Jan 21, 2014 1:46 AM in response to Buadhai

Yeah it is really weird. It is much as I suspected that speed is not actually bad on LAN side.. your iperf results are exactly what I would expect of the Gen5 AE.

I am wondering if it is MTU issue.

MTU has a big effect on internet in some places, whereas local lan will not be much.

There is no MTU settings in the Airport extreme so you would have to set MTU in the computer you are testing..

It is under advanced in the network preferences for wireless.

In my Mac Mini this is the min size MTU possible.. which is odd.. really odd.

I wanted you to try 576. Anyway try adjusting packet size and see what happens.

What about pressing one of your express into service as a router and give it a test.

Other than that I would replace the AE with a standard network router.. one that has some controls that allow you to adjust things like MTU.

I had a quick glance back through the posts.. I am guessing your broadband is adsl.. is that correct?

Are you running the AE in bridge or router?

Can you swap to the modem also being router if it isn't already.. ??

If you do a traceroute to something like google dns, 8.8.8.8 is there any difference between wireless and wired results.

What about when you do ping with variable packet size.

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Answer 10

Jan 21, 2014 2:02 AM in response to LaPastenague

I setup a ping command

ping -g 1400 -G 1500 www.aanet.com.au (that is my ISP.)

It will then ping with packet sizes from 1400 to 1500 .. when I did that, as expected with pppoe everything went to pot at 1492

Since the max packet size on local lan is 1500 but the max packet size over pppoe connection is 1492

1490 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=82 ttl=60 time=70.305 ms

1491 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=83 ttl=60 time=69.734 ms

1492 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=84 ttl=60 time=70.170 ms

Request timeout for icmp_seq 85

Request timeout for icmp_seq 86

Request timeout for icmp_seq 87

Request timeout for icmp_seq 88

1493 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=85 ttl=60 time=4829.026 ms

wrong total length 1513 instead of 1517

1495 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=87 ttl=60 time=2828.410 ms

wrong total length 1515 instead of 1517

1496 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=88 ttl=60 time=1827.537 ms

wrong total length 1516 instead of 1517

1497 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=89 ttl=60 time=826.738 ms

1498 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=90 ttl=60 time=78.262 ms

1499 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=91 ttl=60 time=80.295 ms

1500 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=92 ttl=60 time=70.050 ms

1501 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=93 ttl=60 time=69.595 ms

1502 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=94 ttl=60 time=70.358 ms

1503 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=95 ttl=60 time=101.561 ms

1504 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=96 ttl=60 time=69.731 ms

1505 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=97 ttl=60 time=70.023 ms

1506 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=98 ttl=60 time=68.333 ms

1507 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=99 ttl=60 time=70.179 ms

1508 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=100 ttl=60 time=202.264 ms

The test continues to 1508, which is probably the 8byte overhead from pppoe.

From 1400 up to 1492 the pings were all pretty constant..

1408 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=0 ttl=60 time=65.841 ms

1409 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=1 ttl=60 time=68.690 ms

1410 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=2 ttl=60 time=69.290 ms

1411 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=3 ttl=60 time=66.000 ms

1447 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=39 ttl=60 time=68.929 ms

1448 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=40 ttl=60 time=69.897 ms

1449 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=41 ttl=60 time=68.634 ms

1488 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=80 ttl=60 time=67.895 ms

1489 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=81 ttl=60 time=69.586 ms

1490 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=82 ttl=60 time=70.305 ms

Only at 1492 does it hit the issue.

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Answer 11

Buadhai Author

Level 1

70 points

Jan 21, 2014 2:32 AM in response to LaPastenague

Wouldn't the packet size affect both wired and wireless machines?

Plus, if it was MTU, why did I have very good wireless performance from all devices until some time in mid-October? Nothing changed then. The AE has been in place for a year and a half. I haven't messed with the settings (until today) since I first installed it. But, something happened in mid-October that had a dramatic effect on wireless throughput to the WAN port. Amazing.

I did a traceroute to Google's DNS; there was no significant difference between wired and wireless (Mac Mini).

I tried your variable packet size ping test. Here are the results:

1488 bytes from 124.217.242.80: icmp_seq=0 ttl=53 time=68.204 ms

1489 bytes from 124.217.242.80: icmp_seq=1 ttl=53 time=75.696 ms

1490 bytes from 124.217.242.80: icmp_seq=2 ttl=53 time=68.097 ms

1491 bytes from 124.217.242.80: icmp_seq=3 ttl=53 time=70.141 ms

1492 bytes from 124.217.242.80: icmp_seq=4 ttl=53 time=160.347 ms

1493 bytes from 124.217.242.80: icmp_seq=5 ttl=53 time=69.047 ms

1494 bytes from 124.217.242.80: icmp_seq=6 ttl=53 time=68.013 ms

1495 bytes from 124.217.242.80: icmp_seq=7 ttl=53 time=68.784 ms

1496 bytes from 124.217.242.80: icmp_seq=8 ttl=53 time=80.667 ms

1497 bytes from 124.217.242.80: icmp_seq=9 ttl=53 time=68.281 ms

1498 bytes from 124.217.242.80: icmp_seq=10 ttl=53 time=85.252 ms

My boradband is ADSL.

The AE is in router mode. I could use the ADSL modem as a router. I just need to get a switch because it only has one ethernet port.

In the past, all of my routers have been linux-based on which I ran dd-wrt or some variant thereof. The move to the AE was intended to produce a setup that was more family friendly.

Fail!

I guess I'll go back to a standard router. Any suggestions?

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Answer 12

Jan 21, 2014 1:13 PM in response to Buadhai

The reason MTU can affect things is overheads on wireless are much greater.. it was worth a try..

But I cannot find the reason.

I do believe the upgrade to 7.6.4 is a one way street.. even if you downgrade the performance of the AE seems permanently affected.. I have been too scared to actually test this but we are seeing this effect. To analyse it properly I need a serial tap into the console of the AE and to extract bootloader info... There is a chance the bootloader was updated in the process.

If you can move your modem to router mode, then the AE is fine in bridge.. you do not need a switch.

The AE will actually transfer the WAN port to LAN.

Then you can do the testing again.

If you want to buy another router.. (apple tend to delete my suggestions) but I would look at something that takes either gargoyle firmware or Tomato. DD-WRT is the poor partner now of those. But often 2 out of the 3 will work.

The TP-Link WDR3600 or 4300 are cheap and very reasonable whist the wireless is not too strong.. you can still use AE as AP.

The Asus RT-N66U, or AC66U or latest AC68U stand head and shoulders above the rest for wireless. You might well cover your whole house with it.

The Tenda W1800R is almost hardware identical to the AC66U .. with hopeless firmware.. but Tomato Shibby works very well..

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Answer 13

Buadhai Author

Level 1

70 points

Jan 21, 2014 3:09 PM in response to LaPastenague

Thanks for all your help. I'm just about to go to the US for a couple of weeks on a family visit. I'll defer making any changes until I get back. First step will be to put the AE in bridged mode and test again.

Oddly, what I really dread is having to type all the reserved IP addresses and port forwarding data into the modem/router.

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Answer 14

Buadhai Author

Level 1

70 points

Jan 21, 2014 6:02 PM in response to Buadhai

I finally fixed it. Here's all the things I did:

Roll back the firmware to 7.6.1 (again...)
Change the multicast rate to Medium (was on Low)
Turn off "Use wide channels"
Remove the separate name for the 5GHz network
Change the ethernet WAN port speed back to Automatic

I believe that it was the final change (WAN port speed) that did the trick.

I have no idea how the multicast rate got set to Low. I have no idea how "Use wide channels" got turned on. When I first set up this AE I was using Airport Utlity 6.3. In order to change either of these parameters you have to use AU 5.6.1 which I didn't install until recently. I've had a separate name for the 5GHz network since I first setup this AE over a year ago. I only changed the WAN port speed from Automatic to 100 Mbps/Full Duplex about a month ago; long after the WiFi speeds crashed.

So, it's fixed, for now, but I'm not sure why.

The results:

Mac Mini Wireless: 11.35 Mbps

Mac Mini Wired: 11.45 Mbps

iPad: 11.54 Mbps

iPhone 4: 10.58 Mbps

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Answer 15

Jan 21, 2014 7:48 PM in response to Buadhai

Fantastic.

All of the changes you made should do nothing.

Multicast rate is supposed to be set to low to allow more space for wireless connections to the internet.. ie your change should make things worse not better.

Wide channels.. is only relevant to 5ghz.. and iphone 4 and possibly ipad would not use it.

Separate name for 5ghz should not affect anything.. even if it did it would only affect clients on 5ghz.

WAN port speed is really irrelevant as I understood you were using pppoe in the AE.. if you were not using PPPoE then the AE should have been bridged.

Normally if you do need to use fixed speed setting 100mbps full duplex should be the best setting..

It also should not have affected wireless if the wired was ok.. but that is wireless voodoo for ya.. you failed to offer enough chicken livers to the gods of ether.

So it is all a mystery.. but you did great to persevere.. I think I would have written it off.

Heaven help once you move to AC model AE or TC and the 5.6 utility no longer works.

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