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On Logic Pro X, my songs are always quiet once I bounce them to mp3.

Whenever I am finished recording over a track, adding adlibs etc, and then I have mastered my music as much as I can (I am pretty new to Logic), I bounce it in mp3 format to a folder. When i drag it to itunes and play it, it is very quiet. The quality is fine, but the song is nowhere near as loud as the other songs on my itunes, like album quality songs from professional artists. This seems like such an easy fix, yet I have never found a solution on any thread. I have a song coming out, and I need to meet deadline. Any help is much appreciated!

Logic Pro X, OS X Mavericks (10.9.1), Exporting ruins the volume.

Posted on Feb 1, 2014 7:43 PM

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21 replies

May 6, 2016 12:57 AM in response to Ashtonj264

Please don't listen to these people, they have one point to make which is:
mastering/re-mastering/recording/mixing are difficult processes, for various reasons it's true.

I will take you through exactly what it should be that you focus on to make your project "sound" both clearer and better, which these fools have skirted because they lack the expertise.

Step 1: Make sure the recording is as clean as can be. Right, duh. Well okay, I mean "as can be", like if you can get an environment with no ambient sound DOIT. It isn't stated enough how much that really clarifies and sets solid boundaries between the bass, treble, etc.

Step 2: Track pan volume should not be set so that tracks appear to have 'negative' decibels. I say it this way because that is what it looks like, in actuality it is the difference in volume between your particular layer of the song and the master track.

Step 3: Use the smart controls to create yourself an equalizer. You'll have to do some customizing, different conditions will force you to correct in different ways, but experiment with pushing the frequencies a little bit, it'll give you a sharper sounding, altogether more "professional" song. And definitely Logic has a great feature that even allows you to punch the gain as high as you'd like. All that means to a layman is how responsive to sound the microphone should be, in effect it is similar to cupping your ear, it will focus or separate the tracks to either make them soft and clean or loud and harsh and grainy. Be careful here to avoid clipping... (Continue reading)
Step 4: Logic will automatically "normalize" a song that clips. You may not know what that means, and that is totally fine, but all you should know is that if Logic didn't have this limiter, you could potentially blow a speaker. Clipping is when something plays far too loud or harsh for the amp you're putting it through, and since a pre-amp will not avoid reading a sound bite just because of that, you can easily put way too much sound through a tiny speaker and literally break the membrane, which is fun but expensive. So if you don't want to "normalize" the song, just make sure you avoid clipping, it's really annoying to hear in a song even when the speaker doesn't break, it's just bad form.

Step 5: None of any of the former is really necessary if you have your own studio sound equipment, so just keep that in mind. And when I say that, all I really mean is that those specialized devices will have their own settings, so calibrating the device is usually more intuitive than trying to effectively "build" one out of the software on Logic already. It's really easy to get a louder track just by playing closer to the mic than by recalibrating the software on your computer.


<Edited by Host>

Mar 4, 2015 2:34 PM in response to Waterback

Step 1: A lot of studios have a characteristic ambience. All the great drums recorded in 'that' spot at Rock City, for example. At home you can alter your acoustic ambience by making reflective and absorbative surfaces to improve your environment depending on WHAT YOU ARE GOING FOR. No ambient sound at all would be an anechoic chamber and for a record, that would sound terrible. If you're in a bad space, deaden the reflections but there WILL still be ambient sound. Deaden or diffuse and you can use carefully chosen reverbs.


Step 2: Your whole step 2 is complete gibberish. If you're saying don't leave any headroom whilst tracking… well, I hope you're not saying that because only a complete idiot would advise that.


Step 3: Your description of EQ is interesting. Is 'sharper' sounding really altogether more professional? Logic does have several great EQ's but push the gain 'as high as you like' at your own risk and at the risk of the hearing of your audience especially if you have made that sound 'sharper'.


Step 4: Logic will not automatically normalise a song that clips. It will just square wave (clip) the the peaks. Normalising will bring the the whole waveform up or down, equally, to the set db, not just take the tops down. That would be limiting. When you clip an output it sends a square wave which is way more likely to fry a speaker than just loud music. Although you do say if you don't want to normalise the song just make sure you avoid clipping at the end of this step, you also say, at the beginning of step 4, Logic automatically normalises a song that clips. That must help the OP greatly.


Step 5: No idea what you're going on about aside from the last sentence which is advice so laughable you are in fact in danger of killing innocent board readers from laughter. Although, close miking, far miking and all in between. All mic techniques to learn and apply.


Well done. But please, don't listen to any of us fools who skirt around issues and have one stupid point to make. Art of Sound, Pancenter, Erik, kc, GEM….. I'm looking at you guys as well as me…… admit it, we're all fools. Dancing fooooollllllls.


ps this post was a lot harsher. A lot harsher. But I got told off so this is the edited version.

Feb 1, 2014 10:22 PM in response to Ashtonj264

Ashtonj264 wrote:


........This seems like such an easy fix, yet I have never found a solution on any thread.....


Hi Ashtonj264, well you know, if it was an easy task I'm sure Logic would have provided a one knob solution by now. It's not rocket science either, but it helps to achieve what you want if you understand a few basic principles.

I'm sure things will appear clearer after you had a look at the link:

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/5825682?answerId=24632562022#24632562022


Have a nice day!

Feb 1, 2014 11:48 PM in response to kcstudio

kc, you're right of course...


I'm just amazed that so many people thing it's something "you can just do". Actually, it's easy to get things loud just by using a brickwall limiter.. but to get it loud and maintain the mix/balance and song integrity takes time and an understanding of what is involved. Most people don't realize how much equipment and technical know-how goes into, as the original poster put it, "album quality songs from professional artists."


There may be mastering hardware costing thousands of $$ being used by engineers who've had at minimum a few years experience.


The other and most important thing to remember is mastering was originally a series of edits designed to make a cohesive album. Often music was done in different studios, an album could be partially recorded in Denver, finished in London and mixed in New York. The Mastering engineers job, was to balance and EQ the songs in such a way they formed a unified whole.


Some basic mastering tips.


http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug04/articles/computermastering.htm


Now, mastering seems to be getting everything as loud as possible.. but what's not considered is how to Mix so that a recording can be put through a limiter/frequency enhancer and maintain integrity. If the Mix has too much bass it will peak the limiter and the other instruments will sound weak even though the recording is loud.


To the O.P.


Google limiting and/or brickwall limiting also investigate multiband compression

Feb 2, 2014 1:08 AM in response to Ashtonj264

It's a fact that commercial releases have been getting progressively louder over the years... at the expense of dynamic range. Often when comparing your own productions to commercial releases, the results can be... disappointing. I'll always supply a limited/mastered mix to the client/label, as it's human nature for a quieter track to sound less impressive. But... I'll always supply an un-limited version also, as any mastering engineer usually prefers to work with an un-limited version.


Mastering is an artform, & until recently was left to the professionals. If your tracks are intended for commercial release, I'd strongly recommend seeking out someone with expertise in mastering your particular genre. It may well be more reasonable than you think, & can give your production that something extra that makes the difference.


The good news is that Apple are addressing the 'loudness war'... whether it will make the difference, only time will tell, but Bob Katz seems hopeful :


http://www.digido.com/forum/announcement/id-6.html

http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/permalink/2013/10/28/itunesloudness

http://thequietus.com/articles/13821-loudness-wars-apple-itunes-bob-katz

Feb 2, 2014 2:05 AM in response to Pancenter

One other thing to mention...


Most playback systems don't sound optimal until you're running the output at 50%, most of the time a file will sound better mastered conservatively (than the same file mastered for maximum volume) just by turning the playback system up. Of course if you're trying to keep up with the Jonses and are writing in the same genre then you have to learn how to get the volume at a comparable level.

Feb 2, 2014 2:18 PM in response to Pancenter

My favourite compliment from my last record was from the mastering engineer. They said 'Great mixes. Lots of headroom.... for a change'. It made my day.


The album (11 songs) took 4 hours to master and I never even contemplated, for a second, mastering it myself. This included all the pq codes etc. All songs had between 3 and 6 dB headroom. -3 were always very fast transient peaks.


Pancenter and kcstudio are bang on with their advice.

Jun 20, 2014 7:48 AM in response to Ashtonj264

Ashtonj264,

What did you do with the Multiband compressor? I tried many of these including the standard Multipressor in Logic Pro X. They sound plenty loud in the DAW interface but once I bounce, the song gets quiet again. I really didn't like using the Multipressor because it caused my mix to run really hot.. like +8db hot. I made sure my channels were even and I used some EQs. It still does not sound right.


I have tried every file format available in Logic Pro X - wav, mp3, m4a, etc. They all sound the same. I tried bouncing every bitrate from 44 all the way up to 320. Obviously 44 was horrible but once I got to about 128, anything above that sounds the same. I made sure to run off normalize, I tried bouncing realtime and offline. SAME THING.


I understand that these things require experience to do well and a hefty amount of $$ but to simply get responses of 'You are a n00b, go home!' is not helpful. I am not trying to be a rock star, I am trying to get better at using the program that I have learned to love very much. I would like to know what you figured out to make this work.

Jun 20, 2014 3:37 PM in response to DJ6i

DJ6i wrote:


Ashtonj264,


I understand that these things require experience to do well and a hefty amount of $$ but to simply get responses of 'You are a n00b, go home!' is not helpful. I am not trying to be a rock star, I am trying to get better at using the program that I have learned to love very much. I would like to know what you figured out to make this work.


What is your master channel strip (the one with the Bounce button) peaking at?

In the bonce dialog, Normalize should be OFF.

Also what are you listening with, if it's iTunes make sure ALL of the Audio Enhancements are Off, this includes, Sound Enhancer, Sound Check, Crossfade...etc.


Here's three examples of limiting:


EX1: No limiting, four instruments Bass, Guitar, Drum Set and Percussion. The hi-hats and percussion are mixed up, the peaks are reaching 0db but the overall audio level is low this is because of the RMS (Root means square) power level is low at -17.5db. RMS is continuous output level as opposed to peak.

User uploaded file


EX2: Using a limiter with added gain, the RMS level is -11.8db, peak level is still close or at 0db, the sample is noticeably louder and for TV-Radio broadcast work, still acceptable, it's in your face but most of the audio integrity is preserved.


User uploaded file


EX3: Heavy limiting and added input gain. RMS level is -6.2, very loud audio integrity is lost and generally sounds awful. Some recent releases have RMS levels in the -3 to 4db range however it depends on the style/genre of music as to how the audio handles heavy limiting and gain amplification. I've seen releases that were pretty much solid to 0db. If i were preparing this audio for broadcast I'd probably use some medium level compression as well as EQ to tame the hi-hats/percussion... after that I'd run a separate pass to bring the level up. Personally, I treat the overall RMS level as a separate entity that's done after basic balance/eq mastering. The pics are from Soundforge v10 on a quad-core PC running Win-7.


User uploaded file

Dec 24, 2014 6:34 PM in response to musaicsong

Except.. its not Overload Protection Off.. That's just one of three possible settings for Normalize... On, Overload protection Off and Off...


It's set Normalize to off.... as Pancenter already stated in his last post in this thread...


In the bounce dialog, Normalize should be OFF.


But.....


That isn't always the reason for quiet mixes.....


Example: Playing back the track via iTunes as the Original Poster was doing.. for example... may result in a quieter mix if the User has turned on some of iTunes Playback preferences/features like Sound Check or Sound Enhancer as they can easily affect the volume level of playback.


and again, thats what Pancenter said in the same post earlier...


Also what are you listening with, if it's iTunes make sure ALL of the Audio Enhancements are Off, this includes, Sound Enhancer, Sound Check, Crossfade...etc.


Tip: If you are going to make such a comment, at least try to be accurate and complete and please try to read all the posts so you don't miss anything or simply repeat what someone else has already suggested...


Ho Ho Ho....


Merry Christmas...


Nigel

On Logic Pro X, my songs are always quiet once I bounce them to mp3.

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