How to be Sure Seagate Backup Plus is backing up Macbook Pro?

Hi Apple Support,


I've scoured the forums, your support page and pondini.org (concerning backing up and time machine) and there really is nothing that reassures me that my seagate is backing up my macbook pro. The system I have is Macbook Pro, OS X 10.6.8 (I am unsure if it has retina display?). I am using Seagate Backup Plus (external hardrive).


Questions Branching off this one:

- Does Seagate actually backup your data? In case something happens and need to retrieve my info can seagate do this with time Machine? Exactly how?

-I have gained conflicting information about Time Machine's abilities to actually backup a Mac. Does it or does it not? With a Seagate is it really backing up the info?

- How does the Seagate show that the info is backed up? I have seen on the time machine support page that backed up states are in "pink". My seagate only shows white states (which means, according to the support page, no information is backed up, it is simply a state saved on the computer. How am I sure my computer is backed up on my seagate if backed up states do not appear in pink? )

- Why is my seagate greyed out on the exclusion list? According to forums/Pondini it means that my Seagate cannot be used to backup...??? Or simply that the item itself cannot be backed up (being double backed up on the same device, if I can describe it like that )

- What happens when I buy a new mac book and want to transfer a state to the new laptop. Say, I buy the latest Macbook pro (13" or 15") it has Mountain Lion/Mavericks- will my system/applications/files not transfer?

- If a Seagate is not really a hardware that backs up (why not?) the system then what does and is compatible with macbook pro? G- Tech? La Cie?


More Harware related questions:

- Recently the CD port on my Mac has been making odd sounds when trying to burn audio CDs- then they do not burn. The CDs have no labels/scratches or smudges. What can be done about it? How much would it cost for it to be repaired?

- My battery has been doing good but my good ol' pro is getting on in years- I am guessing I have to return this to the manufaterer if it starts acting up. How does this process work, how much will it cost with/without warranty coverage? My laptop is no longer under warranty and I looked at the $200+ warranty package. I understand there's a CD in there- what happens if my laptop cannot read the CD to register the warranty info on my laptop? Because this is what happend to me when I received my macbook back in 2010 when it came with it's warranty CD (which I still have).


Thanks, I hope you can answer all my questions. Once they are all answered I'm sure this will help out a lot of wary apple cusomers concerned about backing up thier own systems.

MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.6.8), Seagate Backup Plus

Posted on Feb 9, 2014 11:19 AM

Reply
13 replies

Feb 9, 2014 11:29 AM in response to nikiera

nothing that reassures me that my seagate is backing up my macbook pro.



have a time machine backup AND a hard drive clone, one backup is a bad premise and a single choke point for data failure, never rely on a single backup or archive, ever.


Methodology to protect your data. Backups vs. Archives. Long-term data protection




- What happens when I buy a new mac book and want to transfer a state to the new laptop. Say, I buy the latest Macbook pro (13" or 15") it has Mountain Lion/Mavericks- will my system/applications/files not transfer?


Thats what migration assistant is for.





- If a Seagate is not really a hardware that backs up (why not?) the system then what does and is compatible with macbook pro? G- Tech? La Cie?


LaCie IS Seagate, same company, GTech is Hitachi. Of course its hardware.


There are only 4 hard drive manufacturers on earth, theyre all blank mindless bricks, you format them and use them for either TM backups, or data archives, or HD clones.



Everything in data protection is 3 things:

1. redundancy

2. redundancy

3. redundancy





Data Storage Platforms; their Drawbacks & Advantages


#1. Time Machine / Time Capsule

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Drawbacks:

1. Time Machine is not bootable, if your internal drive fails, you cannot access files or boot from TM directly from the dead computer.

2. Time machine is controlled by complex software, and while you can delve into the TM backup database for specific file(s) extraction, this is not ideal or desirable.

3. Time machine can and does have the potential for many error codes in which data corruption can occur and your important backup files may not be saved correctly, at all, or even damaged. This extra link of failure in placing software between your data and its recovery is a point of risk and failure. A HD clone is not subject to these errors.

4. Time machine mirrors your internal HD, in which cases of data corruption, this corruption can immediately spread to the backup as the two are linked. TM is perpetually connected (or often) to your computer, and corruption spread to corruption, without isolation, which TM lacks (usually), migrating errors or corruption is either automatic or extremely easy to unwittingly do.

5. Time Machine does not keep endless copies of changed or deleted data, and you are often not notified when it deletes them; likewise you may accidently delete files off your computer and this accident is mirrored on TM.

6. Restoring from TM is quite time intensive.

7. TM is a backup and not a data archive, and therefore by definition a low-level security of vital/important data.

8. TM working premise is a “black box” backup of OS, APPS, settings, and vital data that nearly 100% of users never verify until an emergency hits or their computers internal SSD or HD that is corrupt or dead and this is an extremely bad working premise on vital data.

9. Given that data created and stored is growing exponentially, the fact that TM operates as a “store-it-all” backup nexus makes TM inherently incapable to easily backup massive amounts of data, nor is doing so a good idea.

10. TM working premise is a backup of a users system and active working data, and NOT massive amounts of static data, yet most users never take this into consideration, making TM a high-risk locus of data “bloat”.

11. In the case of Time Capsule, wifi data storage is a less than ideal premise given possible wireless data corruption.

12. TM like all HD-based data is subject to ferromagnetic and mechanical failure.

13. *Level-1 security of your vital data.


Advantages:

1. TM is very easy to use either in automatic mode or in 1-click backups.

2. TM is a perfect novice level simplex backup single-layer security save against internal HD failure or corruption.

3. TM can easily provide a seamless no-gap policy of active data that is often not easily capable in HD clones or HD archives (only if the user is lazy is making data saves).



#2. HD archives

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Drawbacks:

1. Like all HD-based data is subject to ferromagnetic and mechanical failure.

2. Unless the user ritually copies working active data to HD external archives, then there is a time-gap of potential missing data; as such users must be proactive in archiving data that is being worked on or recently saved or created.


Advantages:

1. Fills the gap left in a week or 2-week-old HD clone, as an example.

2. Simplex no-software data storage that is isolated and autonomous from the computer (in most cases).

3. HD archives are the best idealized storage source for storing huge and multi-terabytes of data.

4. Best-idealized 1st platform redundancy for data protection.

5. *Perfect primary tier and level-2 security of your vital data.



#3. HD clones (see below for full advantages / drawbacks)

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Drawbacks:

1. HD clones can be incrementally updated to hourly or daily, however this is time consuming and HD clones are, often, a week or more old, in which case data between today and the most fresh HD clone can and would be lost (however this gap is filled by use of HD archives listed above or by a TM backup).

2. Like all HD-based data is subject to ferromagnetic and mechanical failure.


Advantages:

1. HD clones are the best, quickest way to get back to 100% full operation in mere seconds.

2. Once a HD clone is created, the creation software (Carbon Copy Cloner or SuperDuper) is no longer needed whatsoever, and unlike TM, which requires complex software for its operational transference of data, a HD clone is its own bootable entity.

3. HD clones are unconnected and isolated from recent corruption.

4. HD clones allow a “portable copy” of your computer that you can likewise connect to another same Mac and have all your APPS and data at hand, which is extremely useful.

5. Rather than, as many users do, thinking of a HD clone as a “complimentary backup” to the use of TM, a HD clone is superior to TM both in ease of returning to 100% quickly, and its autonomous nature; while each has its place, TM can and does fill the gap in, say, a 2 week old clone. As an analogy, the HD clone itself is the brick wall of protection, whereas TM can be thought of as the mortar, which will fill any cracks in data on a week, 2-week, or 1-month old HD clone.

6. Best-idealized 2nd platform redundancy for data protection, and 1st level for system restore of your computers internal HD. (Time machine being 2nd level for system restore of the computer’s internal HD).

7. *Level-2 security of your vital data.


HD cloning software options:

1. SuperDuper HD cloning software APP (free)

2. Carbon Copy Cloner APP (will copy the recovery partition as well)

3. Disk utility HD bootable clone.



#4. Online archives

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Drawbacks:

1. Subject to server failure or due to non-payment of your hosting account, it can be suspended.

2. Subject, due to lack of security on your part, to being attacked and hacked/erased.


Advantages:

1. In case of house fire, etc. your data is safe.

2. In travels, and propagating files to friends and likewise, a mere link by email is all that is needed and no large media needs to be sent across the net.

3. Online archives are the perfect and best-idealized 3rd platform redundancy for data protection.

4. Supremely useful in data isolation from backups and local archives in being online and offsite for long-distance security in isolation.

5. *Level-1.5 security of your vital data.



#5. DVD professional archival media

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Drawbacks:

1. DVD single-layer disks are limited to 4.7Gigabytes of data.

2. DVD media are, given rough handling, prone to scratches and light-degradation if not stored correctly.


Advantages:

1. Archival DVD professional blank media is rated for in excess of 100+ years.

2. DVD is not subject to mechanical breakdown.

3. DVD archival media is not subject to ferromagnetic degradation.

4. DVD archival media correctly sleeved and stored is currently a supreme storage method of archiving vital data.

5. DVD media is once written and therefore free of data corruption if the write is correct.

6. DVD media is the perfect ideal for “freezing” and isolating old copies of data for reference in case newer generations of data become corrupted and an older copy is needed to revert to.

7. Best-idealized 4th platform redundancy for data protection.

8. *Level-3 (highest) security of your vital data.


[*Level-4 data security under development as once-written metallic plates and synthetic sapphire and likewise ultra-long-term data storage]



#6. Cloud based storage

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Drawbacks:

1. Cloud storage can only be quasi-possessed.

2. No genuine true security and privacy of data.

3. Should never be considered for vital data storage or especially long-term.

4. *Level-0 security of your vital data.


Advantages:

1. Quick, easy and cheap storage location for simplex files for transfer to keep on hand and yet off the computer.

2. Easy source for small-file data sharing.


#7. Network attached storage (NAS) and JBOD storage

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Drawbacks:

1. Subject to RAID failure and mass data corruption.

2. Expensive to set up initially.

3. Can be slower than USB, especially over WiFi.

4. Mechanically identical to USB HD backup in failure potential, higher failure however due to RAID and proprietary NAS enclosure failure.


Advantages:

1. Multiple computer access.

2. Always on and available.

3. Often has extensive media and application server functionality.

4. Massive capacity (also its drawback) with multi-bay NAS, perfect for full system backups on a larger scale.

5. *Level-2 security of your vital data.


JBOD (just a bunch of disks / drives) storage

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Identical to NAS in form factor except drives are not networked or in any RAID array, rather best thought of as a single USB feed to multiple independent drives in a single powered large enclosure. Generally meaning a non-RAID architecture.

Drawbacks:

1. Subject to HD failure but not RAID failure and mass data corruption.

Advantages:

1. Simplex multi-drive independent setup for mass data storage.

2. Very inexpensive dual purpose HD storage / access point.

3. *Level-2 security of your vital data.

Feb 9, 2014 11:43 AM in response to PlotinusVeritas

Thank you for the honest and very well informed reply. Where can I find these USB HD/ HD Clones? Which are best to get? How expensive are they? Do I need to buy a new one every time I need to archive/save my system or can it be written over?

How do you keep them safe? Are cases sold for them?

How do you restore a system from an HD clone? I don't entirely see the difference between an HD archive versis an HD clone, other than you can update them more often...?


In short Time Machine is useless other than transferring an entire system over (unless it's corrupted)?

Thanks!

Feb 9, 2014 11:56 AM in response to nikiera

you make the clones yourself, a Clone is just software used to create a mirror copy of your hard drive internally, as mirrored on an external HD.


any hard drive will work as a HD clone, however avoid WD if possible.


HD cloning software options:

1. SuperDuper HD cloning software APP (free)

2. Carbon Copy Cloner APP (will copy the recovery partition as well)

3. Disk utility HD bootable clone.



How do you restore a system from an HD clone?


You can either replace the damaged internal HD with the new external clone, or reverse clone it.


however in case of a SSD , youd have to have the SSD replaced, and use your Time Machine backup to restore to the new SSD.


To restore to factory new condition, there is a recovery partition ON your HD or SSD to which you can online-restore your system to as-new condition, wiped clean if necessary.



Do I need to buy a new one every time I need to archive/save my system or can it be written over?


no, you can overwrite them, both with CCC software above, and the paid version of SuperDuper



people store HD clones in fireboxes often, $20 Walmart, in a safe, some place safe. Naked hard drives just need to be handled correctly, they make cheap plastic boxes for them, but you can simply place them in a ziplock and then in a safe place, / firebox etc.


however naked hard drives require HD docks or HD enclosures to read/ write to them.


HD docks will fit both 2.5" HD and 3.5", perfect for either HD clones or data storage

User uploaded fileUser uploaded file




From your indication, your "easy" option since youre unfamiliar with these things is to continue using time machine and have ANOTHER hard drive to use as a data archive security.




In short Time Machine is useless other than transferring an entire system over



I never said anything of the sort in that regard. No. Time machine is fine.You can do partial backups, partial restores, find specific files in TM, etc.


just read the advantages / disadvantages in the list above.



also read about time machine and what it does and doesnt do here:

http://pondini.org/TM/FAQ.html

Feb 9, 2014 12:14 PM in response to PlotinusVeritas

I suppose I meant to say is that Time Machine seems useless in the regard of full system backups if the laptop itself is messed up and trying to use Time machine to restore it.

Can these HD's backup an entire system? Is there a page that shows the process, from beginning to end with pictures, possibly?

Do you need to use the CCC/Super Duper to do this cloning on the HD?

Is CCC the only option when it comes to tranferring everything (including applications, such as PS and InDesign) to a newer system?


What is a recovery partition? And I did click on the links, and CCC looks promising but online (the whole hacking issue) How does one encrypt document files?


I may be unfamiliar but I would like to be. I'm about to graduate college and I am very concerned about my files, a lot of my livlihood, portfolio samples and original print PSDs are on my laptop. So I want to take charge of my own data security/protection. As to why I am looking for a better/safer way of keeping everything in case my laptop goes on the fritz.

Feb 9, 2014 12:20 PM in response to PlotinusVeritas

Also, I do not understand what SSD is. Where is it on the laptop/MacBook Pro osx? I understand that HD is hard drive.


You can either replace the damaged internal HD with the new external clone, or reverse clone it.


however in case of a SSD , youd have to have the SSD replaced, and use your Time Machine backup to restore to the new SSD.


To restore to factory new condition, there is a recovery partition ON your HD or SSD to which you can online-restore your system to as-new condition, wiped clean if necessary


When should someone use reverse cloning? What is SSD? Where is the "return to Factory Setting" on HD? Is it under disk utilities? or that simply wipe? Is online restore only possible if I have put my system/HD on CCC or something similar to that?


I am trying to understand, pleas bear with me.

Feb 9, 2014 12:27 PM in response to nikiera

You dont state what year / model Pro you have, a SSD is a solid state drive, like memory, used in modern Macs instead of conventional hard drives.


Macbook Pro or Air SSD

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SSD picture in a macbook:

http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/mac/macbookair2012/tosh.jpg



you already know what a conventional HD is,.. I assume.




Where is the "return to Factory Setting" on HD?


http://www.apple.com/osx/recovery/


disk utilities yes, as accessed from booting to recovery.


it formats the SSD or HD and recovers via ONLINE to new-from-box condition.



RESTORE FROM TIME MACHINE is if corruption occurs, you restore to an earlier state, etc, with you data intact, apps, everything.


(same thing you can do with a HD clone).



Just read the links from Pondini on what time machine IS and DOES.


http://pondini.org/TM/FAQ.html

Feb 9, 2014 12:54 PM in response to PlotinusVeritas

Oh! Sorry, yes the year is late 2010. Summer of 2010. Mac Book pro 13" 4gb OS X Snow Leopard, 10.6.8.

Not afraid to say that I am unsure, because I want to be sure I know. Conventional HD is the internal HD? Where everything is saved to within the laptop, correct or no?


Are you saying I can replace the SSD on my own or is this something an Apple support person can only do?

How do I know it's an SSD/ internal HD issue?


I'm going to start with getting CCC, and look into purchasing a naked external. I'm not ery fond of the CD's because I don't really have a place to put them and I've always had a hard time caring for them. Plus I don't know if I could burn info into one- not sure if my CD port works or not.


Do you know if G- Tech portable HD's are just the same as seagate? It says time machine on the portables- I have not checked the mini- I'm concerned it will just do the same thing and not really archive like a naked HD/act like CCC. I'm on the move a lot and I am worried about ruining the naked drive since it is fragile- according to this (and what you said above). As to why I was curious if there are hard cases that can snuggly carry a naked HD.


Thanks again for your patience and sharing your know-how with me.

Feb 9, 2014 1:04 PM in response to nikiera

2010, then its a conventional HD


SSD or HD are both internal, external HD are used for TM backups, data archives, or HD clones.



G-tech or Hitachi are the best made, "same" as Seagate, except superior quality collectively taken as a whole.



You dont need a naked HD, you can just use a USB enclosured-HD, same price, no fuss with HD docks or buying an enclosure, such as here:


they sell same at best buy, office depot, amazon.com etc etc.


BEST FOR THE COST, Toshiba "tiny giant" 15mm thick 2TB drive (have several of them, lots of storage in tiny package) $100

http://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-Canvio-Connect-Portable-HDTC720XK3C1/dp/B00CGUMS48 /ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1390020791&sr=8-3&keywords=toshiba+2tb


*This one is the BEST portable external HD available that money can buy:
HGST Touro Mobile 1TB USB 3.0 External Hard Drive $88

http://www.amazon.com/HGST-Mobile-Portable-External-0S03559/dp/B009GE6JI8/ref=sr _1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1383238934&sr=8-1&keywords=HGST+Touro+Mobile+Pro+1TB+USB+3.0+7 2 00+RPM



Perfect 1TB for $68

http://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-Canvio-Portable-Hard-Drive/dp/B005J7YA3W/ref=sr_1_ 1?ie=UTF8&qid=1379452568&sr=8-1&keywords=1tb+toshiba


Nice 500gig for $50. ultraslim perfect for use with a notebook

http://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-Canvio-Portable-External-Drive/dp/B009F1CXI2/ref=s r_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1377642728&sr=1-1&keywords=toshiba+slim+500gb

Feb 9, 2014 1:36 PM in response to PlotinusVeritas

You're beyond amazing. 😎

So with the Toshiba "tiny giant", how would one archive their system on there? Since it is not through Time Machine. Then to recover an entire system, would you do it through utilities? For transfering system/files use migration assistant as well?

Would you drag and drop files/interal HD?

And when you wanted to update or add more files would you delete that pasted HD and replace it with a new one?


Is this the same for the rest of these wonderful little things you listed? Thank you for keeping price/quality in mind.


Also, I do plan on buying one of these, I still have the questions above before I make up my mind ( I need to know how to use this first) but for now I need to use Time Machine and free CCC- Do you know anything about the different colorations showing a state being "backed up"? I understand it's not archived, but simply a state the internal can go back to if it is not corrupted. Is it "pink" dependant on what system I have, or is it all white because I have a 2010 model?


Thanks again

Feb 9, 2014 3:18 PM in response to nikiera

on a new HD:

Format (erase) it in "mac osx Extended journaled"


AFTER THIS YOU CAN DRAG AND DROP FILES AS YOU LIKE


To show HD on desktop

go into FINDER at top then PREFERENCES then GENERAL tab


then check "hard disks" and "external disks"



after this there will be a HD icon on your desktop, double click to open and drag folders you created with your data onto it


such as:

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Would you drag and drop files/ internal HD?


It is as meant an external HD. from your internal HD in your macbook to an external USB hard drive.




And when you wanted to update or add more files would you delete that pasted HD and replace it with a new one?


Same as you would a real filing cabinet, drag new/ more files to the correct folders


I understand it's not archived


archived is just a turn of phrase to refer to a non-connected data archive , preferably in a safe, firebox, etc, to a redundant data copy you DONT DARE LOSE, etc.


data is data, archived or backup, ...only difference is WHERE, HOW MANY, and HOW SAFE (firebox, unconnected)



Time machine backup, or HD clone (quicker from failure to use this) .....either one is fine for backing up your data, just dont make ONE only external data backup or archive.


2 is 1, and one is none regarding hard drives.


As is usually the case, your data is more valuable than your computer, protecting it is priority one. In which case the only protection is redundancy.



The B.A.R. “rule” (backup-archive-redundancy)

Backup: Active data emergency restore. Backups are moved from backups to archives; or from backups to the computer for restore or data retrieval.


Archive: Active and static data protection with the highest level of redundancy. Archives are only moved from itself to itself (archived copies). Generally a “long-term retention” nexus.


Redundancy: A fail-safe off-site or protected and “frozen” copy of your vital data and foolproof protection against magnetic degradation and HD mechanical failure. A likewise failsafe from theft, house fire, etc.


Redundancy has two points of premise:

A: redundancy (copies) of data archives.

B: redundancy of data on different platforms (optical, online, magneto-optical, HD).


Send your backups to your archives (as often as possible), and your archives to self-same redundancies.


*When referring to backups and archives here, this is in reference to your data saved/ created/ working on,... not your OS, your applications, and your system information / settings,...which is the idealized premise for use of Time Machine as a system-backup after internal data corruption or HD-failure.


Here we are referring to data backups and archives, not system-backups for restoring your OS-system.


If your data on your hard drive is the cash in your wallet, a backup is your bank account/debit card, and an archive is a locked safety deposit box.


Its easy to get your wallet emptied (corrupted) or stolen, your backup checking account is somewhat easy to get corrupted/drained or damaged, but your bunker security is in the lockbox inside the vault, where your vital data and archives reside. In the premise of preventing data loss, you want as often and as much as possible one-way transfers from your “wallet” to your safety deposit box archives; and further still a minimum of two copies of those archives.


Highest priority (archives) requires highest redundancy. In the premise of often copying data from backups to archives, backup redundancy plays a minor role.


Long-term active file backups (a book, a major time-involved video creation etc.) requires double-active redundancies, preferably a minimum of Time Machine and an autonomous external formatted HD, so there are at least three copies of this data: internal drive, Time Machine, and secondary non-TM HD backup.

Feb 9, 2014 5:33 PM in response to nikiera

On a new hard drive, to erase in Mac OSX Extended journaled:


Go to menu bar on top


Finder > Go > Utilities > DISK UTILITY



go to DISK UTILITY


Format (erase) it in "mac osx Extended journaled"



see from mine below, HD on left selected, .......ERASE tab highlighted.... and middle right roughly, it says "MAC OSX EXTENDED JOURNALED"


thats the format, but yours may be different of course


bottom right ERASE tab lets you erase/ FORMAT your external as you like (remember this erases all data ON THE HD!)



highlighted in RED Erase.......format (middle) ...........erase ACTION to Erase/Format (bottom)

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