Loosing half bandwidth extending a wireless network using WDS

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Level 1

18 points

Loosing half bandwidth extending a wireless network using WDS

Hi all... having some trials getting my network setup in my new home and needing to extend the network... thankfully I already have a Time Capsule 802.11n (2nd Gen) and had an Airport Express 802.11n (1st Gen) laying around to extend it with. The issue being that I was getting slow speeds in one are of the home.

After some research, I found that extending the wireless network does indeed extend it but half of the bandwidth is lost in the process. So while I get 20 Mbps connected to the Time Capsule, I get about 9-10 Mbps when connected to the Airport Express. In another Apple community post, heard that this is due to the way WDS is setup in extending the wireless network.

Knowing the Express only has one option of 'Extend a wireless network', what can I do to not lose half of my bandwidth due to extending?

Thanks for any guidance!

Other OS, Time Capsule 802.11n (2nd Gen)

Posted on Feb 11, 2014 8:26 PM

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Answer 1

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LaPastenague

Level 9

67,202 points

Feb 11, 2014 8:42 PM in response to kinisuru

Knowing the Express only has one option of 'Extend a wireless network', what can I do to not lose half of my bandwidth due to extending?

It does have other options .. you can bridge it and run ethernet. Then you setup the Express as a pure AP.

You will then get full speed.

But losing half the speed is the fundamental nature of the beastie.. double hop wireless means every packet is tx and rx twice.. Wireless is unable to Tx while in Rx. .so in other words it is half duplex.

It is also unable to Tx or Rx from multiple points.. ethernet can do both.. full duplex and multiple channels.

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Answer 2

kinisuru Author

Level 1

18 points

Feb 12, 2014 3:24 PM in response to LaPastenague

I honestly did not know about wireless being half-duplex... once you said that it all clicked. I -wish- I could run Ethernet to the AP but unfortunately not at this time.

Nothing can be done to negate the bandwidth loss? Running a pure 802.11n network perhaps? Anything would help... thanks for any tips.

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Answer 3

Feb 12, 2014 3:42 PM in response to kinisuru

I have tried myself every which way.. I was hoping dual band routers could handle a kind of back link on one band so it can simultaneously send and receive.. but wireless just doesn't work that way. It is no faster.

The only alternative I know of is using EOP adapters (homeplug they are named in the US I think).

They are excellent .. good or useless.. depending on the power circuits and wiring of the house. The only way to find out is suck and see.. buy from a store where you can return it without recourse if it simply doesn't work.

Some apple protocols can have issues.. and I do not know which ones will work better.. I run ethernet to everything. Again suck and see.. that great engineering method.

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Answer 4

kinisuru Author

Level 1

18 points

Feb 12, 2014 6:04 PM in response to LaPastenague

I'd have to go through the basement in order to run ethernet to the other side of the house... which right now just isn't something I want to get in to.

Too bad about the technology though... but at least I have coverage. Connected to the main router I get 20Mbps, and on the opposite side of the house, without the Express, I get 5~6Mbps. With the Express, I get a solid 10Mbps. So in the end, it is worth it.

Thanks for all the help!

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Answer 5

Feb 12, 2014 6:31 PM in response to kinisuru

If you want to try another solution.. basements seem very popular in the US for this equipment and is about the worst possible location in the house for wireless.

A really high power AP.. you will need to buy another brand.. I have a couple of them.. a Ubiquiti AP and a Dlink DIR-645 running in AP mode.. it is great.. cost a few dollars.. and gives far superior wireless speed at 2.4ghz than the latest greatest apple router.

Plug it into the main router.. whatever that is.. run it in AP mode.. and set the channel to not interfere with the Apple router.. you will find the range at speed about twice. And with no double hop keeps your speeds up. If you can put it on a decent length ethernet patch cord and move it to the best position in the basement you might find it gives you even better signal.. location is really important to get the min amount of obstacles in the way.

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Answer 6

kinisuru Author

Level 1

18 points

Feb 12, 2014 7:00 PM in response to LaPastenague

Yes - for sure any low-level location or desktop is horrible for wireless... both APs are near the ceiling and the way the basement fits in is that I would run the Ethernet cable into the floor, through the basement, and back up into the room with the Express. Only way to run Ethernet in the house... and tucks away the wires. I even have the ability, albeit difficult, to run it through the attic and ceiling-mount the AP.

I -love- how easy Apple APs are to setup and maintain... and the idea of getting a higher-power device is solid, I just wouldn't be able to afford it for this project.

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Answer 7

Feb 12, 2014 8:46 PM in response to kinisuru

The DIR-645 are end of life model.. but better than most of the replacements.. it is $25 on special in Australia in Australia brand new including post. It is near to loose change .. really.. the actual performance figures I posted in a different forum.. I have reproduced them below.

The result.

The SSID of the DIR-645 is TG782T as it replaces the wireless in the modem of that name.

In my Mac..
macproie-5:~ Ray$ airport -I
agrCtlRSSI: -46
agrExtRSSI: 0
agrCtlNoise: -82
agrExtNoise: 0
state: running
op mode: station
lastTxRate: 145
maxRate: 144
lastAssocStatus: 0
802.11 auth: open
link auth: wpa2-psk
BSSID: fc:75:16:e9:69:b8
SSID: TG782T
MCS: 15
channel: 6

For that to be meaningful.. here is the numbers for a Gen 4 Time Capsule that sits right next to it.

macproie-5:~ Ray$ airport -I
agrCtlRSSI: -54
agrExtRSSI: 0
agrCtlNoise: -85
agrExtNoise: 0
state: running
op mode: station
lastTxRate: 145
maxRate: 144
lastAssocStatus: 0
802.11 auth: open
link auth: wpa2-psk
BSSID: 28:cf:da:b5:98:49
SSID: Tardis24ghz
MCS: 15
channel: 11

8db better signal on the Dlink.. that is nothing to sneeze at.. remember each 3db is twice the power. So speed no better.. this is close.. but the dlink is double.. double again.. and near double again the power output at the wireless antenna of the computer.

As with all Macs at 2.4ghz it is limited to 150mbps.. usually 130mbps or somewhere in between.. But signal is very good. Covers both storeys of the house. Gives me no problems..

For comparison.. here is 5ghz from the TC.
macproie-5:~ Ray$ airport -I
agrCtlRSSI: -72
agrExtRSSI: 0
agrCtlNoise: -84
agrExtNoise: 0
state: running
op mode: station
lastTxRate: 216
maxRate: 300
lastAssocStatus: 0
802.11 auth: open
link auth: wpa2-psk
BSSID: 28:cf:da:b5:98:4a
SSID: Tardis5ghz
MCS: 13
channel: 36,1
As is expected 5ghz is faster.. but the range is terrible. Go a little further away and the 2.4ghz signal will become the faster.

T

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