rich789

Q: Keychain - how do I understand what I can remove?

I don't (knowingly) use Keychain in any form, ever. (That this apparently important piece of software was so unintelligible and so deeply un-user-friendly was one of my big disappointments in moving to a Mac. For pws I use another e-wallet product that's simple and works great.) After having some annoying issues with Keychain pop-up requests (which seem to be a common problem) I went into Keychain Access and discovered masses of stuff in there - and I don't even know what most of it is, because the interface is - from the ordinary user's pov - almost comicall hard to make sense of. I have heard it's not possible to unistall Keychain. Is there a way to "wipe" it safely and then make sure it never bothers me again? Or is there stuff in it that, despite never actively using it, I have to keep? Part of the problem is, I don't know why there is ANY info in there, and I can't tell what is in there.

 

(Please - don't tell me I "should" be using it! After reading many pages of stuff, I still can't even make head or tail of it.)

 

Thanks!

MacBook Air, OS X Mountain Lion (10.8.5)

Posted on Feb 22, 2014 10:52 PM

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Q: Keychain - how do I understand what I can remove?

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  • by Barney-15E,

    Barney-15E Barney-15E Feb 22, 2014 11:01 PM in response to rich789
    Level 9 (50,871 points)
    Mac OS X
    Feb 22, 2014 11:01 PM in response to rich789

    You mean to say that you can't look at a list items that require passwords and understand that they are a list of items that require a password?

  • by rich789,

    rich789 rich789 Feb 24, 2014 8:14 AM in response to Barney-15E
    Level 1 (8 points)
    Mac OS X
    Feb 24, 2014 8:14 AM in response to Barney-15E

    I have a piece of software that's a list of items requiring a password. It's simple, easy to use, and isn't Keychain.

     

    In the case of Keychain, I appear to have four different "keychains" and under each keychain there are six different categories. Some of these have many dozens of items under then, some with helpful names like "ids: message-protection key." Not a single thing anywhere in all this material was knowingly created by me.

     

    If Keychain was exclusively "a list of items that required passwords" then yes, I would understand that that was what it was. Even then, I would need to understand (a) what all the other stuff is, and (b) how it got there, and (c) whether I can delete it, and (d) whether this would make the plague of pop up "Allow / Deny" requests to go away.

  • by rich789,

    rich789 rich789 Feb 24, 2014 10:25 AM in response to rich789
    Level 1 (8 points)
    Mac OS X
    Feb 24, 2014 10:25 AM in response to rich789

    This is an addition to the original query...

     

    Getting urgent... after weeks of occasional problems with annoying Keychain "Accept / Deny" pop ups, I now have a much more serious Keychain development.

     

    I am getting pop-ups that say (one example): CalendarAgent wants to use the "login" keychain. Please enter the keychain password.

     

    BUT...

     

    The ONLY options are (1) to enter "the password" - whatever that might be: to repeat, I have NEVER knowingly used Keychain, so I have no idea what password it wants, never mind what accepting this would in fact mean, or (2) to hit Cancel. But hitting cancel simply brings the pop-up back - again and again and again. I cannot remove it from my screen, at all - it's sitting there right now in a corner.

     

    HELP! I guess the next step is a cold reboot. But Keychain, which I never wanted, don't use, and has managed to collect reams of data despite my not using it, is now seriously interfereing with my ability to use my machine.

     

    HELP. And thank you.

  • by Eric Root,Helpful

    Eric Root Eric Root Feb 24, 2014 10:30 AM in response to rich789
    Level 9 (74,243 points)
    iTunes
    Feb 24, 2014 10:30 AM in response to rich789

    Try running Keychain First Aid and the reset the Keychain if the problem continuues.

     

    Keychain Reset

  • by ClassicII,Helpful

    ClassicII ClassicII Feb 24, 2014 10:36 AM in response to rich789
    Level 3 (835 points)
    Feb 24, 2014 10:36 AM in response to rich789

    When ever you get this message below it means that the password on your user account is different than what the keychain holds and knows as its password. All you need to do is change the LOGIN keychain password to what your user account password is. You can confirm this by looking at the LOGIN keycain in the upper left hand corner of the keychain box. Is the little lock locked or unlocked ? If its locked then the password is different. Also keep in mind that if you deleted the keychain and recreated it then you have to remember to not let the keychain lock after 5 min or after the screen saver kicks in. That could be set also and you can confirm by right clicking LOGIN keychain and the selecting change settings of login keychain. Are any of the check mark boxes clicked?

     

    CalendarAgent wants to use the "login" keychain. Please enter the keychain password.

  • by rich789,

    rich789 rich789 Feb 24, 2014 10:58 AM in response to ClassicII
    Level 1 (8 points)
    Mac OS X
    Feb 24, 2014 10:58 AM in response to ClassicII

    So it turns out - I should have thought to just try this - that the pws for Keychain were all my user account pws. How this all got locked, who knows, but I was able to unlock (by re-entering that pw several times for different keychains (? or different somethings) and now the pop-ups-from-**** have gone. Thank you!

     

    However, in "unlocking" all this I still have NO understanding of exactly what I have unlocked, or what the implications of this are. It's scary to dsicover that a piece of software I don't understand has (apparently) been recording all sorts of stuff that I don't (as far as I can see) want it to record. Looks as if all the password items are "not saved," which is good. But what's a system root? What's a certificate? What are keys? What's the difference between a login item and a local item? Please understand, I really don't want to know the answer to these questions - I just want to know that I can set Keychain to be safe, invisible, and not doing anything I don't want it to be doing  - preferably without taking a computer science class.

     

    Any help much appreciated.

  • by ClassicII,

    ClassicII ClassicII Feb 24, 2014 11:16 AM in response to rich789
    Level 3 (835 points)
    Feb 24, 2014 11:16 AM in response to rich789

    The only thing you have to worry about is the LOGIN keychain.

     

    That is a secure database of sorts that keeps all of YOUR passwords in it.

     

    Dont worry about the certs, system keycain, system roots and all that jazz they are for the system and none of your passwors will ever go into any of those sections.

     

     

     

    The real reason for the lock is to protect all of your password info. Ill give you an example.

     

    Lets say some was trying to get to your bank password and did a password reset on your account.

    The attacker would then log in and try to look at your keycain entries. OSX will not let him though as it will LOCK the keychain to prevent this. As soon as he logged in the system realized that the account password and the keychain password are now different and has locked the LOGIN keychain to prevent unauthorized access. The only person that can access the info in the keychain is the person who knows the OLD password. The attacker does not know this and the keychain will remain locked.

     

     

    The messages that you noticed that said that bla bla was trying to use your LOGIN keychain means that you maybe had a saved password and that application could not access the keychain because it was locked. But if you typed in the OLD password it would unlock for that item. The new password would not have worked.

  • by rich789,

    rich789 rich789 Feb 24, 2014 8:59 PM in response to ClassicII
    Level 1 (8 points)
    Mac OS X
    Feb 24, 2014 8:59 PM in response to ClassicII

    OK, this is helpful, thanks. BUT...

     

    There are many dozens of items in there. Most say "(password not saved)" but some don't. Can I jut delete them? Can I just delete or clear the whole login keychain? I still don't know why it's trying to save stuff, and I really don't want it to. If someone's first idea on trying to hack my machine is to look at Keychain, and I don't use Keychain, it just seems silly to have my pws lying around in there, however secure it's supposed to be.

     

    Appreciate the help anyway!

  • by Barney-15E,

    Barney-15E Barney-15E Feb 24, 2014 9:18 PM in response to rich789
    Level 9 (50,871 points)
    Mac OS X
    Feb 24, 2014 9:18 PM in response to rich789

    Then just delete it all. 

    You'll just have to enter passwords where you didn't have to before.

    Any sites that require certificates for you to connect will reject you.

  • by rich789,

    rich789 rich789 Feb 25, 2014 1:00 PM in response to Barney-15E
    Level 1 (8 points)
    Mac OS X
    Feb 25, 2014 1:00 PM in response to Barney-15E

    I'm really still hoping for an answert to my original question:

     

    I have heard it's not possible to unistall Keychain. Is there a way to "wipe" it safely and then make sure it never bothers me again? Or is there stuff in it that, despite never actively using it, I have to keep?

     

    This thread is getting long, but alas I'm still no clearer on this. And it's interesting to discover just how many discussion threads are out there in which Mac users beg for this information... but can't get it.

     

    It sounds (as ever I'm guessing, I'm not sure) as if one really does need Keychain to keep track of certificates, but that people who use Keypass, Dashlane etc do not need it to be storing passwords. But working out how to get Keychain to not store them AND not ask whether to store them, and in addition to delete only ones it has stored and not other things that may not be passwords (because many of the entries, even under the password list, are not recognizable) seems amazingly hard!

     

    What's striking, across the dozens of threads I've looked at: experienced Mac users who are comfortable using Keychain are deeply (often angrily!) impatient with any desire not to use it, and seem to think those of us who want not to use it are idiots, as if (a) Keychain is clearly a safe and superior product and (b) comprehension of Keychain is installed in normal people at birth. BUT it's a product that obviosuly causes huge confusion and aggravation to many users - not surprising, given a user interface that looks like a nightmare about Redmond in the 1990s - who need a clear explanation of what it does and doesn't do, or what functions are or are not duplicated or superceded by other more recent products.

     

    The bottom line: with all due respect to Mac, it's just not rational for a user to entrust passwords to "security" products the functioning of which they don't understand clearly. But worse still is to have a system on your machine which is doing this without your having ever intentionally set it up to do so, and which you cannot now (see above) work out how to tell not to do so... 

     

    Still feeling stuck - any other ideas on how to master this would be gratefully received - by many people, from what I've read!

  • by ogaxtny,

    ogaxtny ogaxtny Feb 25, 2014 1:26 PM in response to rich789
    Level 1 (55 points)
    Feb 25, 2014 1:26 PM in response to rich789

    Are you looking for information on what the Keychain is?

     

    Bascially the Keychain, located in /Applications/Utilities/Keychain Access is a piece of software which will store most passwords entered in applications, online, login password etc. The users keychain which would store items like web application password i.e., Facebook, appleid.apple.com etc is called the "Login" keychain. The software is secure if you have a login password, due to the fact as soon as this password is over written or changed, it will request the "Login" password (which is the password used to login to your user) and if it cannot be provided, you must create a new one, hence, wiping all stored passwords.

  • by ogaxtny,

    ogaxtny ogaxtny Feb 25, 2014 1:29 PM in response to ogaxtny
    Level 1 (55 points)
    Feb 25, 2014 1:29 PM in response to ogaxtny

    There is no given, but if you were wanting to "wipe" or "disable" the keychain form storing/requesting passwords follow these instructions:

     

    Click on "Finder"

    Click on "Go" from the Apple menu in the top left corner

    Click "Utilities"

    Click "Keychain Access"

    Locate the keychain titled "Login" on the left hand side

    Right click or hold CONTROL on the keyboard and click on "Login"

    Click on "Delete Keychain 'Login'"

    Do not create a new one

  • by ClassicII,

    ClassicII ClassicII Feb 25, 2014 2:15 PM in response to rich789
    Level 3 (835 points)
    Feb 25, 2014 2:15 PM in response to rich789

    Well guess what I wanted to find out.

     

     

    What happens when you delete the keychain.app, system.keychain and login.keychain?

     

     

    Well, the keychain app is gone and the system.keychain and login.keychain files are recreated and function normaly with out the keychain.app after reboot.

     

     

    Dont do this at home folks.