7 Replies Latest reply: Apr 7, 2014 11:09 AM by Cambusmore
Cambusmore Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)

A couple of days ago, my Macbook Pro (early 2011) started to warn about low battery power not long after being charged. Menu icon said "Service battery". I downloaded "coconutBattery" which showed about 282ma maximum charge at 4% of capacity. Yesterday, that changed to 32ma maximum charge at 1% of capacity. Today, the battery isn't even recognized - no menu icon at all and coconutBattery says "n/a". It all looks to me like a major battery failure.

 

I believe Apple say the battery in these should do 1000 cycles (mine's done 32) before dropping even to 80% maximum charge. Has anyone had a similar experience and should I take this up with Apple before spending £150 on a replacement battery?


MacBook Pro (15-inch Early 2011), OS X Mavericks (10.9.2)
  • PlotinusVeritas Level 6 Level 6 (14,705 points)

     

    Cambusmore wrote:

     

    I believe Apple say the battery in these should do 1000 cycles

     

     

     

    Cycle counts dont really mean anything,   long term old age yes,....  short term abuse ruins a battery,  not cycle counts.

     

     

    Did you:

     

    A: often drain the batter low?

    B: often have your macbook BOTH on charge AND in sleep mode?

     

     

     

    Cycle counting doesnt amount to much at all except in LONG TERM.

     

    I can, on purpose if so inclined, kill a battery in 100 cycles due to mistreatment

     

    People with 100 cycles after 3 years have their Macbooks always plugged in and on charge which isnt a good thing at all.

     

     

    General consideration of your MacBook battery

    Contrary to popular myths about notebook batteries, there is protection circuitry in your Macbook and therefore you cannot ‘overcharge’ your notebook when plugged in and already fully charged.


    However if you do not plan on using your notebook for several hours, turn it off (plugged in or otherwise), since you do not want your Macbook ‘both always plugged in and in sleep mode’.


    A lot of battery experts call the use of Lithium-Ion cells the "80% Rule", meaning use 80% of the full charge or so, then recharge them for longer overall life. The only quantified damage done in the use of Lithium Ion batteries are instances where the internal notebook battery is “often drained very low”, this is bad general use of your notebook battery.


    A person who has, for example, 300 charge cycles on their battery and is recharging at say 40% remaining of a 100% charge has a better battery condition state than, say, another person who has 300 charge cycles on their battery and is recharging at say 10-15% remaining on a 100% charge. DoD (depth of discharge) is much more important on the wear and tear on your Macbook’s battery than the count of charge cycles. There is no set “mile” or wear from a charge cycle in specific. Frequent high depth of discharge rates (draining the battery very low) on a Lithium battery will hasten the lowering of maximum battery capacity.

     

    All batteries in any device are a consumable meant to be replaced eventually after much time, even under perfect use conditions.

     

     

    If the massive amount of data that exists on lithium batteries were to be condensed into a simplex, helpful, and memorable bit of information it would be:

     

    1. While realistically a bit impractical during normal everyday use, a lithium battery's longevity and its chemistry's health is most happy swinging back and forth between 20% and 85% charge roughly.

     

    2. Do not purposefully drain your battery very low (10% and less), and do not keep them charged often or always high (100%).

     

    3. Lithium batteries do not like the following:

    A: Deep discharges, as meaning roughly 10% or less on a frequent basis.

    B: Rapid discharges as referring to energy intensive gaming on battery on a frequent basis (in which case while gaming, if possible, do same on power rather than battery). This is a minor consideration.

    C: Constant inflation, as meaning always or most often on charge, and certainly not both in sleep mode and on charge always or often.

     

    From Apple on batteries:

    http://www.apple.com/batteries/notebooks.html

    http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1446

    "Apple does not recommend leaving your portable plugged in all the time."

     


     

    Keep it plugged in when near a socket so you keep the charging cycles down on your LiPo (lithium polymer) cells / battery, but not plugged in all the time. When not being used for several hours, turn it off.

     

    http://www.apple.com/batteries/notebooks.html

    "Apple does not recommend leaving your portable plugged in all the time."

     

    General rule to remember of Lithium batteries is:

    Never drain them LOW  & dont always/often store them HIGH

     

    DoD (depth of discharge) is far more important on the wear and tear on your Macbook battery than any mere charge cycle count.  *There is no set “mile” or wear from a charge cycle in general OR in specific.    As such, contrary to popular conception, counting cycles is not conclusive whatsoever, rather the amount of deep DoD on an averaged scale of its use and charging conditions.

                              (as a very rough analogy would be 20,000 hard miles put on a car vs. 80,000 good miles being something similar)

    *Contrary to some myths out there, there is protection circuitry in your Macbook and therefore you cannot overcharge it when plugged in and already fully charged

     

    *However if you don’t plan on using it for a few hours, turn it OFF (plugged in or otherwise) ..*You don’t want your Macbook both always plugged in AND in sleep mode       (When portable devices are charging and in the on or sleep position, the current that is drawn through the device is called the parasitic load and will alter the dynamics of charge cycle. Battery manufacturers advise against parasitic loading because it induces mini-cycles.)

     

    Keeping batteries connected to a charger ensures that periodic "top-ups" do very minor but continuous damage to individual cells, hence Apples recommendation above:   “Apple does not recommend leaving your portable plugged in all the time”, …this is because “Li-ion degrades fastest at high state-of-charge”.

                        This is also the same reason new Apple notebooks are packaged with 50% charges and not 100%.

    Contrary to what some might say, Lithium batteries have an "ideal" break in period. First ten cycles or so, don't discharge down past 40% of the battery's capacity. Same way you don’t take a new car out and speed and rev the engine hard first 100 or so miles.

     

    Proper treatment is still important. Just because LiPo batteries don’t need conditioning in general, does NOT mean they dont have an ideal use / recharge environment. Anything can be abused even if it doesn’t need conditioning.

     

    Storing your MacBook

    If you are going to store your MacBook away for an extended period of time, keep it in a cool location (room temperature roughly 22° C or about 72° F). Make certain you have at least a 50% charge on the internal battery of your Macbook if you plan on storing it away for a few months; recharge your battery to 50% or so every six months roughly if being stored away. If you live in a humid environment, keep your Macbook stored in its zippered case to prevent infiltration of humidity on the internals of your Macbook which could lead to corrosion.

     

    Considerations:

    Your battery is subject to chemical aging even if not in use. A Lithium battery is aging as soon as its made, regardless.

     

    In a perfect (although impractical) situation, your lithium battery is best idealized swinging back and forth between 20 and 85% SOC (state of charge) roughly.

     

    Further still how you discharge the battery is far more important than how it is either charged or stored short term, and more important long term that cycle counts.

     

    Ultimately counting charge cycles is of little importance.  Abuse in discharging (foremost), charging, and storing the battery and how it affects battery chemistry is important and not the ‘odometer’ reading, or cycle counts on the battery. 

     

    Everything boils down to battery chemistry long term, and not an arbitrary number, or cycle count.

     

    Keep your macbook plugged in when near a socket since in the near end of long-term life, this is beneficial to the battery.

     

     

    Peace

  • LowLuster Level 6 Level 6 (12,050 points)

    That 1000 cycles is an estimate. Simple fact is batteries go bad, wear out, fail no matter if they are use a lot, very little and even if they are not used at all. They all fail, go bad, after a certain time period. Yours has reached that time periiod and needs to be replaced.

  • Cambusmore Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)

    Update: yesterday it started from the charger, went to a desktop and immediately went into sleep mode. After some pressing of the power button/keypad/enter key, the screen reappeared and all was well. The second time it was powered up, the same performance took longer. Today it does the same thing: startup > login screen > desktop > sleep - except now it won't wake up at all!

     

    All this time the battery indicator on the side of the MacBook has been showing 8 'cherries' and now the sleep indicator light is going on and off intermittently (on and off, not pulsing). Does this still sound like a battery problem - or something more sinister/expensive?

  • LowLuster Level 6 Level 6 (12,050 points)

    You won't know that until you take the system into an Aple store to have it properly diagnosed and at least have the battery changed.

  • PlotinusVeritas Level 6 Level 6 (14,705 points)

    Your battery chemistry has changed to the point that you need a battery replacement.

     

     

    Contact Apple for appt. for free diagnostics and in shop evaluation and likely battery replacement.

     

     

  • Cambusmore Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)

    Well, I took it into the Apple Store. They looked at it and diagnosed battery OK but a new logic board required! Seems pretty poor for a three year old Mac that cost about $2,000 new.

  • Cambusmore Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)

    Update: I spoke to the nice people at Apple who were brilliant. They advised me to take it to an authorized reseller and ask to make a claim under 'European Consumer Legislation'. Did that and it was all fixed and returned with great efficiency and at no charge. It seems that all consumer durables sold within the European Union must last a minimum of seven years (but you need to have the original receipt).