10 Replies Latest reply: Mar 1, 2014 9:17 AM by Frank Caggiano
David Gordon Level 1 (115 points)

Lets say I have 99 frames I want to rename in a project (which may have more pictures). I want to rename them in order they were shot and that's how they're displayed. I'm using Batch Change and using a Version Name Format which I created <Custom Name><Counter>. The counter is reset to 01 and is using a two digits. The result should be 99 frames renamed (including originals) to ABC01 through to ABC99.


I select the first frame in the sequence, hold shift and click on the last. I now have 99 frames selected and use the Batch Change.


The result is the sequence ABC01, ABC03, ABC04 ... ABC98, ABC99, ABC02


Which is clearly wrong and another reason I tend not to trust Aperture and usually use Photo Mechanic for metadata input.


So I have to clear the numbers by changing then to some other sequence and try again. And then usually it works as expected. Sometimes.


Is there something wrong with the way I'm expecting Aperture to select files in order?



  • Kirby Krieger Level 6 (12,510 points)

    It sounds as if you are doing everything correctly.


    Is "ABC02" the only one not in the expected order?


    Is it always the second Image in the selection that is mis-numbered, or is it always this particular Image regardless of position in the selection?


    Is it in a Stack?  Is there anything about it that stands out to you?

  • Frank Caggiano Level 7 (25,715 points)

    IN addition to Kirby's suggestions, as a test try breaking the sequence down to see if you can find where the problem is.


    For example select the first 5 images and run your rename. Does is work as expected or is there still an image seemly out-of-order?


    See if you can find the trigger that is causing the problem.


    FWIW - I tried it here on a small test library (17 images) and it always works  numbering the images in the order they are shown in the browser.

  • David Gordon Level 1 (115 points)

    Thanks Frank and Kirby.


    Of course, I've just renamed a couple more batches and they worked fine... But it is something I've had happen more than once before.


    No stacks or anything I can see that might cause this.


    I had thought it was something to do with the "most selected" frame.


    But here's somethng, I just selected a nunber of frames starting from the last then shift-clicked on the first. And they were re-numbered in reverse order. So Aperture is never/not always going to rename files in the order you see them in the Browser. So somewhere I'm getting a frame 'out of order' by reselecting it or making it the most selected or something...?


    Would you expect a set of frames to be renamed in reverse order as just happened to me?



  • Kirby Krieger Level 6 (12,510 points)

    Aperture is actually doing something clever:  it keeps an internal list of the order in which Images were selected, and it uses this list for operations such as renaming with a counter or a sequence.  How the Images are shown in the Browser is, at best, just a interim step towards creating the _selection order_ (just made that up) that is used for operations of this kind.


    I had assumed you knew that from the way you specified both setting the order in the Browser, and then also selecting them from first to last.

  • Frank Caggiano Level 7 (25,715 points)

    The order of a selection depends on both the order of the underlying images in the selection and the selection direction.


    So a selection of images name 01 02 03 04 and sorted by name will sort 01 02 03 04 if the selection starts at 01 and 04 03 02 01 if the selection starts at 04.


    This is correct and actually a useful behavior. In fact Aperture has a number of selections and operations on selections  it can do. Look in the edit menu.



  • David Gordon Level 1 (115 points)

    Okay, so it is the way in which I'm selecting the images. For example if I select eleven pictures and then see I've missed one at the beginning of a sequence so add that to the selection the re-numbering will be 12, 1, 2, 3.... 10, 11.


    I think I might want to argue that this is counter intuitive, not the expected way it should work, not even very Mac like.


    But I know what's going on now thanks to you both!





  • Kirby Krieger Level 6 (12,510 points)

    Seems deeply intuitive to me:  it intuits the order I've selected the Images, and uses that!


    "Intuitive" is grossly misused.  Apple products have a much higher degree of extramural coherence than most, but the intuitive part is based on two simple things: the products make broad use of what the user has already learned (there is _nothing_ intuitive about a computer, or about a "mouse"), and they almost always provide direct visual feedback of their current state.  Aperture's order selection violates this second precept, and so is, as you'd argue, a bitterer fruit than an apple.  But that unseen layer exhibits a rigorous elegance which I find recouperates the product's polish.  Even in its un-apple-y-ness, it's very Apple-y.


    Straight to the point: once understood, it is easy and useful.

  • léonie Level 10 (85,640 points)

    Okay, so it is the way in which I'm selecting the images. For example if I select eleven pictures and then see I've missed one at the beginning of a sequence so add that to the selection the re-numbering will be 12, 1, 2, 3.... 10, 11.

    It looks like Aperture were respecting your "Primary selection" when renaming, see:

    http://documentation.apple.com/en/aperture/usermanual/index.html#chapter=5%26sec tion=2%26tasks=true

  • David Gordon Level 1 (115 points)

    So which is correct, Aperture or Photo Mechanic? I just checked with PM, I selected eleven frames then added one more, the first in the sequence. Aperture, as we know, renames them 12, 01, 02 ... 10, 11. Photo Mechanic does what I expect and think is correct. I have the frames in order so it renames them in order, 01, 02, 03 ... 11, 12.


    If I wanted the first frame in the sequence to be renamed number 12 I'd have moved it into that position in the browser.


    Photo Mechanic helpfully also tells me in the dialog window thow the renumbering will work, confirming the first frame in the selectio will become number 01, the last 12.


    Obvoiusly this is all very wrong. I shall immediately complain to Camera Bits. ;-)

  • Frank Caggiano Level 7 (25,715 points)

    So which is correct,

    Not really a question of 'correct' but two different, equally correct, ways of handling this.


    A case can be made for either one, I guess the best solution would be a way to have both and toggle between them but that is not the case here (or in any software that I am aware of).


    So all that can be said is make sure you know the tool you are using and how it works, and don't assume that the new tool works identically to the old one.