Q: Macintosh SE startup Problem (diskette and a interrogation sign)

Hi,

The diskette icon with a flashing question-mark means that the computer cannot locate a valid system folder. A startup disk of some kind is required.

Please note that a plain Macintosh SE cannot handle 1.44 MB HD diskettes (a Macintosh SE FDHD can).

http://support.apple.com/kb/sp191   (http://support.apple.com/kb/sp192)

So, you will have to use DSDD/2DD diskettes (with a formatted capacity 800K for Mac). Only other Macintosh computers from approx. 1986 to 1997 (with a built-in floppy drive) can read and write the special 800K Mac format.

With access to another suitable pre-1998 Mac (see above) connected to the Internet, you can download a complete system from Apple.

http://www.info.apple.com/support/oldersoftwarelist.html#system

System 6.0.8 (800K) or System 7.0 (800K) would be the recommended versions (also depending upon the amount of RAM installed). The Disk Copy 4.2 utility (the Make A Copy button) creates a sector-copied floppy from a downloaded disk image. You may want to begin by downloading the four System 6.0.8 (800K) files; one of them is a tools/startup disk.

http://www.info.apple.com/support/oldersoftwarelist.html#util

Do not hesitate to post back if there are any questions.

Jan

Hello again,

The tools disk under that link should work as a startup floppy (but there is always a risk that an old diskette may have lost data).

However, if the Macintosh SE has an empty internal hard disk, you may need a complete system. For example, as indicated earlier, System 6.0.8 is supplied on four 800K floppy disks.

You may be able to find a set of original system disks through an online auction site. The supported system versions are listed in the technical specifications (see above), but 800K floppies were not used later than System 7.0.

If you could find someone with another pre-1998 Macintosh computer (to be used as an intermediary), it would not be too difficult to create proper floppies from downloaded disk image files. Of course, you will need blank or reformatted double-sided double density (2DD or DSDD) diskettes. 2DD/DSDD diskettes will have a formatted capacity of 720K for PC and 800K for Mac. A 2DD/DSDD diskette has only a square hole with a write-protect tab (an HD diskette has an empty square hole in addition to the one with a write-protect tab).

A Macintosh computer with a built-in floppy drive is required for the 800K Mac format. A variable speed is used in order to achieve the higher 800K capacity (not used with the 720K PC format; the 2DD/DSDD diskettes as such are identical). This means that is is not possible to use an internal PC or any external USB floppy drive for 800K Mac-formatted disks.

Have you verified that it is a plain Macintosh SE (not an FDHD)?

Jan

OK. Sometimes these computers were updated to FDHD, but if so there should be a corresponding label on the case.

Sorry, I do not know where to find original system disks. You may have to wait until something suitable turns up on eBay.

If there is an Apple User Group in your area, someone there could possibly help you.

http://www.apple.com/usergroups/

Jan

Yes, you can start the computer from a single tools floppy (800K).

A tools floppy does normally contain a disk utility (like Disk First Aid) and a formatting utility (like HD SC Setup).

The hard disk could be empty (the previous owner may have erased it). An empty hard disk would produce the diskette icon with the flashing question-mark. Or, something could have happened to the operating system, the file system or the hard disk drive driver software. All this can often be corrected through the use of an appropriate tools floppy.

A temporary system can usually be drag-copied from a tools disk to an empty (but properly formatted) hard disk.

A bad logic board battery may affect the startup ability of some older Macintosh computers. The contents of the PRAM may not be OK. Finally, we cannot completely rule out that the hard drive is faulty (do you hear the hard disk spinning?).

Jan

Addendum

Tools/startup floppies may have different names.

For example, a System 6.0.3 (800K) "System Tools" floppy contains a System Folder and an Apple HD SC Setup program (and additional files, but not Disk First Aid). This is the disk found under the following download:

http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English -North_American/Macintosh/System/Older_System/System_6.0.x/SSW_6.0.3_Disk1of4.se a.bin

On the other hand, a System 6.0.3 (800K) "Utilities 1" floppy contains a System Folder, Apple HD SC Setup and Disk First Aid (as well as additional files). This disk can be found here:

http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English -North_American/Macintosh/System/Older_System/System_6.0.x/SSW_6.0.3_Disk2of4.se a.bin

Carloselvis,  can we just call you elvis?   Looks like Jan has done all the heavy lifting so far.

We started up our first SE the other day.  It is a customized SE that still works just fine.  We chose the double floppy edition so that making disk copies would be easier.  With a math co-processor card, a Radius video expansion card and four - count them - four meg of RAM, it had gone about as far as it could go.

So, what can you do?  First thing is to not forget the external SCSI drive port.  You might have to spend far more on an external hard drive than you have on the computer.  You should be able to find an external Zip drive that will boot the SE.  In fact, finding a zip drive and disks should be easier than finding 800k disks.  We have still not confirmed that you have the earliest Non - FDHD SE.

If you have a dual floppy SE, there is a strong possibility that you do not have an internal hard drive.  If you only have one floppy, there is a strong possibility that you do have an internal hard drive.  If you have an internal hard drive, there is a 50/50 chance that it will still spin up.

Finding a local user group will be key to finding supporting hardware.  Otherwise, you will spend dearly on ebay to find the resources you will need.  I know nothing of the UK recycling efforts but in the US you can still find stores that save older external devices for hobbyists.

First, post back with confirmation of which model SE you have.  Even opening the case to verify the existence of a hard drive requires a special Torx tool with a long tip.

You may also want to consider a newer legacy mac like a platinum G3 that would be much easier and cheaper to revive.  What ever you decide, we will walk you through what you have.

Hello again,

I do not know which system version is on the floppies. A disk with printing software is not shown, so the set may not be complete. The five white floppies appear to be 800K (or perhaps 400K), since they only have one square hole (the one with a write-protect tab). At least two of the blue disks do also appear to be 800K (or maybe 400K). The grey floppy is 1.44 MB (HD).

If you could find a 1991-1997 Macintosh computer (on eBay or elsewhere), things would be much easier. Such a model would have a built-in floppy drive, which can handle 800K and 1.44 MB Mac-formatted (as well as 720K and 1.44 MB PC-formatted) floppy disks. A model with an Ethernet port would be recommended. A desktop Mac from this period should not be expensive. A laptop, such as a PowerBook 520/520c/540/540c, is normally more expensive. These semi-old Macs can be very useful as intermediate machines. Files can be downloaded directly, or transferred on 1.44 MB floppies from a more modern computer (Mac or PC). On the intermediate machine, sector-copied 800K floppies can be created without difficulty via the Disk Copy 4.2 utility.

Jan