MattyRay

Q: Random Keys Working Sporadically

I have a MacBook Pro OSX, that I bought about 4 years ago. It has worked PERFECTLY for me. Until now. What is happening is at RANDOM times and for RANDOM lengths, a few keys (t,y,u,i,o) will STOP working. It is totally random and there seems to be no pattern to it at all - they simply will work, and the stop, and then work again (as you can see, they are working NOW). I brought it in to the local computer shop (Best Buy) and they did a hardware analysis to see if the keyboard was broken. It came back and said the keyboard was functioning fine. I don't know what to do at this point?? I've read about the battery perhaps swelling up and causing this, but IDK...ANY help would be GREAT!!!!

MacBook Pro, OS X Mountain Lion (10.8.5)

Posted on Mar 10, 2014 1:32 PM

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Q: Random Keys Working Sporadically

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  • by spudnuty,

    spudnuty spudnuty Dec 11, 2015 5:13 AM in response to mathiascraig
    Level 5 (7,097 points)
    Mac OS X
    Dec 11, 2015 5:13 AM in response to mathiascraig

    Hi mathiascraig,

    Is this the same machine you had the similar problem with last year?

    This is a view of the keyboard contact array from the back looking at the front array. The back array is arranged mostly vertically.

    MBP keyboard front array .jpg

    I think my labeling is correct.

    So as you can see the contacts here are all arranged and wired horizontally. Any crack in the trace will cause the downstream keys to stop working. (Not sure which way is downstream.)

    "Sometimes I have been able to get them working again (like right now) by pressing hard on the case in the upper left of the top case."

    That probably causes the fault/crack to mend itself temporarily.

    "Sounds like replacing the keyboard may be the only answer?"

    This has always worked for me. It's a bit of a pain because there are around 50 tiny screws that hold the keyboard to the front case.  I always use a new keyboard off eBay. I've done 5 so far, twice on this machine (The first time I used a used keyboard which developed a repeating "ssss" problem after a month or so, which is why I use only new parts now.) which is exactly the one your have: 13", Early 2011, Core i5, still running Mavericks 10.9.5. I bumped the RAM to 8 GB and installed a 120 GB SSD from OWC. Like a new machine, very fast. I'll never go back to a conventional HD after putting a SSD in here. Put one in my Wife's Mini 2012 and even my shop iMac, 20" late 2006. This MBP was also cheap since I bought it 3 years ago with a water spill problem for $200.

  • by spx54,

    spx54 spx54 Dec 11, 2015 9:59 PM in response to spx54
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Dec 11, 2015 9:59 PM in response to spx54

    I had turned off Google as my primary search engine in Safari preferences (changed it to Bing) and my keyboard - miraculously - started working again without a hitch.

  • by fredfromal,

    fredfromal fredfromal Dec 13, 2015 11:24 AM in response to spx54
    Level 1 (10 points)
    Dec 13, 2015 11:24 AM in response to spx54

    I think you're on to something here, but changing my search engine had no effect. I believe it's background operations.

     

    Unless there is permanent failure due to a mechanical issue, these conditions seem to be software/firmware/operations related.

     

    My "floating key blackouts" can be traced primarily (lost them again, took 7 key presses to get back) to browser use. I'm still working on isolating the root cause(s), but I have had some pretty good success by reducing as many "influencer's" as possible. I've taken the following steps:

     

    • Look for and remove as many preferences left behind by old, deleted, or outdated programs. As an example, I had a startup item left from Virtual Machine and there were dozens of pref's left from trial programs.
    • Turn off as many system preference "extras" as possible. These were mostly in the accessibility, trackpad, keyboard and mouse sections, but I turned off as many "options" as possible.
    • Re-installed OSX

     

    At the moment, I continue to lose the T,Y,U,I and O keys repeatedly, but for shorter periods of time than before. Quitting the browser has helped, as has repeated pressing one of the disabled keys (vs. holding down) until it begins working again. It's taken any where from a few key presses to over 20, but rarely fails (lost the i for a moment, took 12 key presses to get it back) When I do that they all work for extended periods of time.

     

    Things that had no effect:

    • Restarting
    • Reset PRAM
    • Reset PMU
    • Running Disk Utility
    • Running Disk Utility from OS Recovery
    • Changing keyboard (US to British, deleting US, restart, re-enable US. Did have some success at first but never lasted)
    • Banging head against wall

     

    OnyX app results have been significant. There are features to reset all types of background caches and processes and reset file associations (i.e. override ïnfo"settings to associate a file with a certain program).

     

    My gut tells me the issue is rooted in background ops (caching, kernels, etc.). Taking a SWAG at it, I'd say related to spotlight indexing and the feature which automatically saves versions of documents. I'm experiencing numerous "key dropouts" while writing this and it incorporates auto-saves. I'm going to look back through the posts to see if I can determine a match between the rise of issues and new OSX versions/features. If I recall correctly, at some point these background operations were "reclassified" from being done during times of idle (sleep) to "always on".  As this lost key issue seems to be restricted to pre 2013 MBP's and the 2011 and 2012's highly susceptible, it may be related to some type of hierarchical sequencing that only affects older models. Is it/ it is possible newer multi-core processors might reserve a core to process these background operations without affecting operations in the forefront. Again, I must note it's a SWAG, but as it keeps occurring and disappearing it's probable.

     

    If I find more, I'll add more, but I hope Apple can find some way to address.

  • by fredfromal,

    fredfromal fredfromal Dec 13, 2015 11:28 AM in response to fredfromal
    Level 1 (10 points)
    Dec 13, 2015 11:28 AM in response to fredfromal

    I forgot to mention, Apple Hardware Test reported no issues, nor were any mechanical issues uncovered during tests and when Apple replace my 2011 motherboard (extended repair program) three days ago.

  • by fredfromal,

    fredfromal fredfromal Dec 26, 2015 7:30 PM in response to fredfromal
    Level 1 (10 points)
    Dec 26, 2015 7:30 PM in response to fredfromal

    I found another anomaly. Changing system preferences from on to off doesn't always work. I remain unsure how "deep" the issue goes, but I caught track pad settings which were supposedly off with no check box checked were actually on. This condition has been noted with regard to "mouse keys". Thes supposedly "off" keys had to be "checked to turn on" then turned ff to really be off.

     

    Again any site that auto-saves, such as this one brings on the "sporadic key" issue in full force. Everything had been fine for days. Once here, I've had to go through the "solution" of repetitive key presses to "clear" the delay in key press recgnn. (See wha I mean?)

  • by Sanderrrr,

    Sanderrrr Sanderrrr Jan 18, 2016 4:17 AM in response to spx54
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 18, 2016 4:17 AM in response to spx54

    Hi guys,

     

    I have the same problems with my 2011 macbook air 13". Sporadically not working keys between the q and the o. It's very annoying when i'm typing long reports and stuff...

     

    But nobody has a solution

  • by spudnuty,

    spudnuty spudnuty Jan 18, 2016 2:44 PM in response to Sanderrrr
    Level 5 (7,097 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jan 18, 2016 2:44 PM in response to Sanderrrr

    Well read my post above. I had this problem on my MBP 2011. I've also repaired 3 other MBPs with the same problem.

  • by fredfromal,

    fredfromal fredfromal Jan 22, 2016 2:01 PM in response to spudnuty
    Level 1 (10 points)
    Jan 22, 2016 2:01 PM in response to spudnuty

    Conditions are worse IMMEDIATELY after updating to 10.11.3, which would again seem to reflect a software issue vs. hardware failure.

  • by spudnuty,

    spudnuty spudnuty Jan 22, 2016 3:31 PM in response to fredfromal
    Level 5 (7,097 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jan 22, 2016 3:31 PM in response to fredfromal

    Is the problem there with a USB keyboard plugged in? That would be interesting that an OS upgrade would only affect certain keys especially since they are mechanically connected.

    What happens if you go back to OS 10.9.5 or 10.10.X?

  • by spudnuty,

    spudnuty spudnuty Jan 22, 2016 3:32 PM in response to fredfromal
    Level 5 (7,097 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jan 22, 2016 3:32 PM in response to fredfromal

    Sorry, it said it didn't post so I reposted it and now there's two!

  • by fredfromal,

    fredfromal fredfromal Jan 23, 2016 10:44 AM in response to spudnuty
    Level 1 (10 points)
    Jan 23, 2016 10:44 AM in response to spudnuty

    Plugging in an external keyboard, the external keyboard works without any issue.

     

    I have a very simple theory, an electronic component either functions or has failed. Practically speaking, there is no "in between". If a light bulb, a hard drive or a motherboard fails, the only acceptable corrective action is replacement. At the moment, my internal keyboard is functioning perfectly. Further as noted in an earlier post, Apple did a full hardware test and found no issues with the keyboard.

     

    Another theory, Mountain Lion released July 2012 added a feature to show optional accented letters by pressing and holding a key. This replaced the "repeat key" feature. I didn't realize this change had occurred until recently, but it was confusing. Holding down a key (sometimes one that didn't work) brought up the accent letter display, but when pressing the space (bar) key it repeated as I expected all keys were supposed to work.

     

    Therefore holding down a temporarily inoperative key did nothing, until the error was apparently cleared and the accent key display appeared. Although I didn't make the connection, all keys then functioned perfectly...for a while (keyboard acting up again, very sporadic).

     

    Between then and the latest update, I read about newer Macbooks having issues with a frozen track pad and/or keyboard. (example-http://www.techradar.com/us/news/mobile-computing/laptops/apple-fesses-to-keyboa rd-and-trackpad-freezes-on-some-new-macb…) Digging further, I also found a "workaround" suggestion in the Support section. Restart using Command+Option+P+R but remain holding down the keys until the restart cycles 5 (maybe 4) times. That seemed to do the trick, but after 10.11.3. it did not help.

     

    It was at this point I realized the change in Mountain Lion to show accent letters rather than repeat key presses. More searching I came up with this article explaining how to revert to "repeat" mode and how to reset to accent letter default. (http://osxdaily.com/2011/08/04/enable-key-repeat-mac-os-x-lion/). Making this change to repeat mode has had moderate success.

     

    So my conclusion remains there is/are one or more "background operations" creating the delay in accepting a keystroke, and that once the "operation(s)" completes its/their cycle(s) all works properly.

     

    One additional item that came up yesterday is if I opened up Preferences>Accessibility, then select Keyboard in the LH selection area, then bring up "Show Keyboard Viewer", I can press and/or hold all the "supposedly non functioning keys" on my "supposedly broken keyboard" and hear audible feedback and view a darkened key image according to the key presses. After closing that all down I can still have inoperative keys.

     

    Driving me nuts!!

  • by IfYouCanReadThisMyMacsBroken,

    IfYouCanReadThisMyMacsBroken IfYouCanReadThisMyMacsBroken Feb 3, 2016 4:41 AM in response to MattyRay
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 3, 2016 4:41 AM in response to MattyRay

    I had the same problem with D-L not working. Macbook pro 2011.

     

    I tried a lot of the suggestions here but what eventually worked for me was just pushing down REALLY HARD on the broken keys until I heard a disturbing "click" and then, hey, my keyboard instantly works again.

     

    Loose electric theory seems pretty plausible.

     

    If you don't see another response from me after this in this thread it means that fixed the problem permanently or at least until the day I replaced this Mac.

  • by zegypt,

    zegypt zegypt Feb 4, 2016 3:25 PM in response to IfYouCanReadThisMyMacsBroken
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 4, 2016 3:25 PM in response to IfYouCanReadThisMyMacsBroken

    PROBLEM SOLVED

     

    I've had the same problems with my keyboard for the last couple of weeks where some of the keys would intermittently fail to respond.  The Genius at the Apple Store believed it was an issue with the actual keyboard and thought it should be replaced (the keys failed even while he was diagnosing the problem while not using my operating system).

     

    I experienced other problems after upgrading to El Capitan from Yosemite (search indexing wasn't working well and Godaddy email was continuously resetting itself in the Apple Mail app), so I went back to the Apple Store and had them erase my computer and reinstall Yosemite

     

    So far my problem has been solved with the keyboard (and all other issues have been solved as well).

     

    It appears not to be a physical issue with the keyboard because, logically, why would it work sometimes and sometimes it doesn't.  There is some type of software interference; either the OS is clashing with a program for some reason or I (and you) downloaded a program that is causing issues with the way your computer is processing the key strokes on your keyboard.  Either way, it appears to be working now. 

     

    I am going to transfer only the apps that I feel are necessary to hopefully prevent this from happening again.  For all I know, this could be an issue with the compatibility of my computer's processor (MacBook Pro, 15-inch, Mid 2010; 2.4 GHz Intel Core i5) with the software I've download, which may not affect newer computers for all I know.

  • by IAmNotAMachine,

    IAmNotAMachine IAmNotAMachine Feb 6, 2016 3:09 PM in response to zegypt
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Feb 6, 2016 3:09 PM in response to zegypt

    Add my MBP -- mid-2012 model -- to the list of MBP's with an intermittent key not working problem. In my computer's case it is the 'w' and '2' keys most often.

     

    I have not spilled anything on the keyboard.

     

    I tried cleaning the keyboard, using a can of compressed air to blow anything out from under the keys. This seemed to help then the symptom came back. I removed the key tops and checked for any signs of problems. I found none. I did a bit more cleaning using a shop vacuum at home to vacuum the keyboard. Didn't help. I took the unit to work and used lab compressed air -- clean and dry with no oil! -- to blow the keys out.

     

    Didn't help any. The symptoms came back.

     

    I can "fix" the problem by turning the computer off for a while. It cools down of course and the keys work. But after a while the symptom comes back. Using the compressed air also "fixes" the problem for a while as it cools down the keyboard in that area is my guess as to why it helps.

     

    I have tried all the software settings and what have you to no avail. I have pushed the option key, the command key and what have you until my fingers bleed and it doesn't help. I think the problem is a hardware problem and one related to heat.

     

    So, I probably will take the MBP to the nearby Apple store and have the keyboard replaced. Just had the MBP there last weekend to get some worn key tops replaced. Great service with no appointment even and best of all I wasn't charged for the new key tops or the replacement of same.

  • by dkbestbuds,

    dkbestbuds dkbestbuds Feb 9, 2016 8:57 AM in response to IAmNotAMachine
    Level 1 (0 points)
    iCloud
    Feb 9, 2016 8:57 AM in response to IAmNotAMachine

    Yup this is happening to me too. Yesterday it was my 'n' 'm' keys today its the 'c' and 'v.' This is a mid 2014 mac. I just upgraded to the latest OS. **** now its happeig to other keys too!!

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