What is an acceptable backlight bleeding/leaking? (with photos)

I have recently purchased a 30" Cinema Display on-line from Apple. It has arrived last week and after testing it there seems to be way too much backlight leaking. At least once this screen has shown green cintillating pixels (problem as described elsewhere on the forums here). So this one has gone back for a refund.

Here are the photos taken of a pure black screen in complete darkness (s/n CY63xxUMUG1):
http://www.max3d.com/~amigo/acd/CY63xxUMUG1_e1.jpg
http://www.max3d.com/~amigo/acd/CY63xxUMUG1_e2.jpg (overexposed)

Then, this weekend I went to an Apple Store and purchased another 30" screen (s/n CY61xxUZUG1) and here are the photos from it:
http://www.max3d.com/~amigo/acd/CY61xxUZUG1_e1.jpg
http://www.max3d.com/~amigo/acd/CY61xxUZUG1_e2.jpg (overexposed)

This new screen has a bit less leaking on the sides, but it still has it. The s/n suggests this screen is an older one (made in April 2006) and might not be the refreshed series (higher brightness) which is maybe why the leaking is not as pronounced.

What are the acceptable limits on the backlight bleeding?
Should I return this screen I got from an Apple Store as well and try yet another one?
Is there a "perfect" screen out there that does not have backlight bleeding?
What are your thoughts in general on this issue?

Posted on Aug 14, 2006 7:14 AM

Reply
45 replies

Aug 14, 2006 11:35 AM in response to 3dluvr

Wow.

I thought I was crazy when I purchased a 23" display with very similar bleed problems as you have on your 30".

I think it is way too much. If I am watching/viewing a mostly black screen, the light bleed is easily detectable.

It is odd, because on my 20" cinema display there is absolutely zero bleed. The 20" display is slower, but it looks -way- better than my 23" on dark screens (they are otherwise identical on mixed graphic screens).

I am probably going to try and exchange it this week if I have the time.

Aug 14, 2006 12:54 PM in response to controller2k

I used to have a 20" Cinema Display and that screen was perfect, bought in July 2005, just have recently traded in at one of the Apple re-sellers.
Now that I think of it, maybe I should've kept it instead.

But thanks for the re-assurance, I was split whether I should simply live with this issue or not. After talking to a colleague here at work and reading your reply, I am going to return this monitor as well and try another one. Afterall, paying $2,000 for a screen should yield a 100% working product. If I was paying 80% of the price then I should get a 80% working item...
The only thing in my mind is that I am sorta reserved whether I will actually find a screen without backlight bleed or not - maybe they are all defective like this.

Mac Pro Mac OS X (10.4.7)

Aug 14, 2006 7:15 PM in response to 3dluvr

And so I went and got a third screen (returned the second one to the Apple Store). This new screen appeared the best of the three I had after doing some testing and the backlight leak wasn't as severe as the other two (photos follow):

http://www.max3d.com/~amigo/acd/CY62xx28UG1_e1.jpg
http://www.max3d.com/~amigo/acd/CY62xx28UG1_e2.jpg (overexposed)

Then I found two dead pixels about 1.5" apart in the upper left area just above the center of the screen. They appear as bright spots on the black background, but do not show on any other colour background. Tried power cycling the screen and rebooting the computer, but it did not make them go away.

The worst was yet to come - after I tried using the supplied cloth to remove some dust specks from the screen. After a very gentle pressure on the screen I noticed the panel moving inwards into the frame slightly with a crackling sound. I went to the four corners and the screen appears to be somewhat lose there, enough to hear it crackling against there frame assembly holding it in place.
My guess is that this is the reason the backlight on this one does not bleed as much (screen is not screwed in as tight as others) but this is definitely a factory defect and a pretty bad one.
Also, if attention is paid to how tight the screen is agains the frame, backlight bleeding can be reduced if not corrected.

I really wonder if whoever assembles these screens works under some heavy illumination or whether they do it in the semi-dark environment where they can actually see the backlight bleeding. The later would really make sense when tightening the screen to the frame.

There are some serious issues here that Apple's QA should address and make a new assembly policy/procedure so that screens are tested more rigorously before leaving the factory, or specific pressure values established for each mount point. I know this is not a Spache Shuttle here but we are paying $2,000 for each one of these so...

If I can sum it up in one word it would be: AARGH !!!

Aug 14, 2006 7:32 PM in response to controller2k

Apple Stores here do not really let you test monitors before buying, and any testing in-store is impossible under the usual super-bright illumination Apple uses to light their stores.
Yes, everything looks nice, shiny and new but there's no way to tell whether certain things like monitors are really 100% or not.

The frustration level here is rising up and up, I do not know how high can it go. BAH!

I say get your monitor replaced with another one, and another one and another one until you get what you paid for. I am sure going to try that. Maybe in the process Apple should pay US for the hassles, frustrations and time spent on going back and forth and testing something their QA should've done at the first place.

Aug 15, 2006 10:24 AM in response to Amw3000

" Are you letting the LCD warm up?"

What nonesense! To the OP...the "acceptable amount of backlight bleeding" is NONE!. Esp. on a display as expensive as this. "Warming up" the display will not "fix" the problem. Backlight bleeding is a defect. Period. Apple (or any other mfgr. for that matter) implying (or stating) that there is an "acceptable level of backlight bleeding" is acting in an unconcienable manner. And anyone foolish enough to accept this preposterous claim deserves what they get. It's high time we stopped paying through the nose inferior products and then trying to defend them out of misplaced loyalty. I am the first one to praise a company like Apple which offers some of the best electronics in the world. But when they refuse to deal with obvious quality control issues such as the ones that have plagued the very expensive alum ACDs since day one (which was, by the way, over two years ago now), all bets are off...

DD

Aug 15, 2006 10:45 AM in response to David DeCristoforo

Agreed,

That whole "let the display warm up" is complete and utter garbage. This is not and old engine, but high technology. I have posted many time how I went through 12 (23") displays and just gave up, they are garbage and over prices, if you must own an ACD only buy a 20". never a 23" and maybe a 30" if you are desperate for the ACD looks.

I switched to an Eizo and there is absolutely ZERO backlight issues, ZERO stuck or dead pixels and the colors are very good.

I agree Apple makes some incredibly good products, but when it comes to their display line its really incredible how they can continue to sell products like these for such high prices and such poor quality.

Save yourself some cash and buy the 30" Dell.

Cheers!

Aug 15, 2006 10:55 AM in response to SFLA99

The photos of the last screen I got has the least backlight leaking, and I am split whether I should keep it or not. I fear that my quest to find a display that does not bleed backlight will turn futile.
But that screen has that issue that all four corners of the panel do not seem to be tightely screwed to the frame so that when you gently press in to wipe the dust off, the panel itself moves slightly inwards (maybe 1mm). I do not know whether that would affect the operation of the screen later on...

As for the Dell's 30" I heard that they were not as good as Apple's and that the viewing angle of the display was pretty bad (although people say that both Apple and Dell use the same panels).
Of course with Dell I wouldn't be able to go to a store and just exchange the screen for another one.

Aug 15, 2006 1:04 PM in response to David DeCristoforo

" Are you letting the LCD warm up?"

What nonesense! To the OP...the "acceptable amount of
backlight bleeding" is NONE!. Esp. on a
display as expensive as this. "Warming up" the
display will not "fix" the problem. Backlight
bleeding is a defect. Period. Apple (or any other
mfgr. for that matter) implying (or stating) that
there is an "acceptable level of backlight bleeding"
is acting in an unconcienable manner. And anyone
foolish enough to accept this preposterous claim
deserves what they get. It's high time we stopped
paying through the nose inferior products and then
trying to defend them out of misplaced loyalty. I am
the first one to praise a company like Apple which
offers some of the best electronics in the world. But
when they refuse to deal with obvious quality control
issues such as the ones that have plagued the very
expensive alum ACDs since day one (which was, by the
way, over two years ago now), all bets are off...

DD


I even posted on dpreview.com that there are many problems with these monitors and I was quickly reminded that those who post here with problems are not the masses. One poster boasted how he has bought over 20, 23" and 30" displays without a single problem.

I'm sticking with my decision to purchase an Eizo CE240W.

Aug 15, 2006 2:40 PM in response to controller2k

Well, I exchanged it and just installed it.

No real light bleed problems in this one; it is pretty much one full color, though the 20"'s black is more inky black.

In addition, I noticed the last monitor had a color profile that was -way- off (I could never quite get the gamma right on it either). The new one's profile is accurate.

The new one is much brighter than the old one as well.

I must have had a bad unit, besides the light bleed problems.

-P

Aug 15, 2006 5:34 PM in response to 3dluvr

Here are my thoughts...

My Dell 30" panel also moves inward a bit when pressure is applied, as does Apple 30" displays I've seen in stores. I think that's just how the panels are assembled, and thus I consider it normal. I don't notice any change in the backlight when the panel is pushed in, although I suppose it would be a severe defect if it did have an effect.

You got a panel that looks like my Dell in terms of having little or no backlight bleed. That's a good reason to keep it. However, the two dead/stuck pixels would bother me (I have none), but maybe not so much if they were near the edge.

The Dell 30" uses the same LG-Philips LCD panel as Apple (only LG currently has 30" panels in mass production), though the backlight assembly is probably different. My Dell looks excellent, no complaints at all.

Warming up of the backlight is something real and something I've noticed that happens. The backlight gets brighter within a few minutes and more even, but it won't result in less backlight bleed.

Is there a perfect LCD? Yes, my 24" and 30" Dells.

Aug 15, 2006 6:32 PM in response to Phil Ta

When you gently press on your screen, do you see the "smudge" of colours (This is most clearly visible on the pure black background). I have this notion in my head that Cinema Displays have (had) another layer of glass or something protective on top that would prevent from this happening when the surface of the panel is pressed?

Actually does this smudge happen on any cinema display at all, I sort of do not remember my 20" alu one doing that but then again I don't recall checking either?

Those two pixels are no just one, so I think they were stuck and not dead, though the one that's stuck is still around.

I am kinda thinking to keep this screen but I'm worried about the fact that pressing the screen at the corner actually changes the backlight illumination momentarely. Otherwise I think the screen is fairly uniform with just some backlight bleed at the upper right and lower left.

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What is an acceptable backlight bleeding/leaking? (with photos)

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