Jumpy playback from image sequences rendered in Apple Prores and then exported to h264

Question

Level 1

11 points

Jumpy playback from image sequences rendered in Apple Prores and then exported to h264

I will start by saying I have been using FCP since 1.0 and am in no way new to this software, but this issue has me going crazy.

First the Specs:

MacPro 2 x 2.66 Quad cor Intel Xeon

16 gig Ram

OS 10.9.2

FCP 7.0.3 (sorry but I am not a fan of FCP10 at all)

In other words, a beast of a system that has played back everything I have ever built on it for years until now. So now for the issue: I work with an amazing 3D Max builder and we have created a building animation exported from that program into and image sequence ( we have tried JPG, TGA and PNG still all with the same effect). I open Quicktime 7 Pro, build the image sequence, save as .mov, import into FCP and drop it into my 1080p30 Apple Prores (HQ ... we also tried SQ) timelines. The timeline renders perfectly and I can play the video perfectly through my system out of Firewire 800 to my Motu V4HD device which then converts the signal to HDMI to my 55" LED TV. The video and playback is perfect.... until:

If I try to play back the same exact time line into an exported video file, the file will play back with random jumpyness in it. I say random since you can play it back 10 times and it will hiccup during playback at different spots in the video. If you review every frame in the file though using Quicktime 10, 7 or VLC viewer, every frame is perfect. So, it must be the data rate right? Wrong. I have exported now to H264 MP4, M4V, MOV , ect, etc at different data rates from 4mb to 40 mb per second. They all have the same randow jumpyness to it. So it must be my computer right? Nope. I have a Macbook pro that is more powerful than this machine and I rebuild the file using the same method (something I have done a thousand times before) and the exported file does the same thing on that machine. I had my friend do it on his machine... same thing. ERRRR....

We have even tried using After Effects and Premier to the same result. Rendered it straight from Quicktime Pro, same. Rendered it to 720p30, same. Render it to 24fps, same. I had another editor render it using whatever methods he wanted to use... same. Tried Compressor, SAME. Tried Adobe Media Encoder, SAME......We even, god forbid, used a PC running Premier and built the image sequence and rendered to h264 at 30fps, 5mbs.... @#$@#$ SAME!

We just remade the 3D Studio Max export into a 60fps animation since I thought that the individual frames we appearing too far apart and thus causing the jumpyness. That was causing the playback of the upclose objects flying across the screen fast to appear jittery, but not the random playback jumps. The 60fps did smooth out the animation greatly during fast flybys, but the playback jumps are still there in all players, QT, VLC, the web, etc.

I was starting to think this issue is realted to Mavericks, but since the PC did the same thing that is not it either. I have linked a sample of the clip below exported to 720p30, 25mbs... something that is much smaller than the original and should playback smooth very easily on any of my systems.

FYI: I have now opened numerous projects I have edited over the last few years and noticed that all of them are now jumpy, so this isn't just an image sequence issue. While the other projects don't use image sequences and instead are shot footage edited together, there is still the random jump (far less than the image sequence as you will see) but they are now there... ***? I have cleared preferences in FCP which helps for a short period of time, but once exported I get the same glitch.

As I said... I am stumped... ANYONE have ideas for me to try?

Here is a sample file for you all to see and please tell me if anyone does not see the issue after playing it several times in a row.

www.media3lv.com/switch/NORTH-sample-720p30_25mb-sec.zip

One last thing to note... my main goal for these videos is YouTube or Vimeo playback via our company website. I have a few other animations online right now using YouTube and the problem is also showing there. At first I thought it was just my videos, but I have looked at numerous YouTube videos now showing 3D animation and alot of them are jumpy.

www.supernap.com/supernap-building-design.html

www.supernap.com/supernap-tscif-exchange.html

These don't show the issue as bad since the camera fly is much slower, but why is this occuring and is it coming from my source, or is this a known youtube issue? I can program this using out own modules, but YouTube and Vimeo allow for multiple resolutions and a checker script which makes it easier to share over all devices at all quality up to 1080p.

Advice is welcome and appreciated?

Posted on Mar 26, 2014 11:15 AM

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Answer 1

Mar 27, 2014 10:06 AM in response to Schiemer

just played it back on my system 4 times without any issues. Have you tried playing it back on other computers?

Got a macpro 2 x 2.26 quad core intel xeon. My boot drive is a dual raided ssd card and I saved the file to my desktop.

I'll try copying it to a hard drive and see if there are any issues.

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Answer 2

Mar 27, 2014 10:10 AM in response to Michael Grenadier

copied it to an internal drive and played 4 or 5 times without any issues.

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Answer 3

Schiemer Author

Level 1

11 points

Mar 27, 2014 10:14 AM in response to Michael Grenadier

I have tried 3 Mac systems in our office (2 macpros and 1 macbook pro) and 3 PC systems running Quicktime. All of them playback the file the same way... random jumpy playback, never jumping in the same spot and individual frames are perfect.

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Answer 4

Schiemer Author

Level 1

11 points

Mar 27, 2014 10:17 AM in response to Schiemer

FYI, I use my internal system drives for software only, allowing the rest of the drive to be used for system cache. Then, my external drives are esata 7200 rpm Caldigit drives. I have never had issue playing back files from the system until now and the playback through my Motu V4HD via Firewire 800 and then to HDMI is perfect, so I know it's not the drives causing the hiccups.

For a test though I have copied the files to my system drives and numerous different externals for testing and all have the same playback.

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Answer 5

Mar 27, 2014 11:11 AM in response to Schiemer

Have you tried just playing it back to the desktop not via the motu? Maybe even try disconnecting the Motu.

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Answer 6

Schiemer Author

Level 1

11 points

Mar 27, 2014 11:21 AM in response to Michael Grenadier

Yes. The other systems we have, including my laptop do not use the Motu. I have tried playing it back via the internal drives and from numerous external drives. I even tries my PCs and had other editors I know build the image sequence themselves and render the final file. It has the same issue on their systems and also once it gets back to mine. I am getting ****** since I have never had issues building video of any kind in the last 20 years of doing this.

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Answer 7

Mar 27, 2014 11:26 AM in response to Schiemer

I've got it looping in qt player from a 7200 internal drive without any issues. What OS are you running? (grasping at straws here).

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Answer 8

Schiemer Author

Level 1

11 points

Mar 27, 2014 11:38 AM in response to Michael Grenadier

OS 10.9.2 on all 3 Mac systems tested. I thought this might be the issue too, but when it played with similar hiccups on the PC I figured it was not system based. So, you're saying that you have ZERO playback issues and do not see any frame bumps or play back jumpyness at all? The way it appears to me is that at random spots, especially at the beginning and once the camera flys to the side of the building near the last flag polls, the video will have a bump and continue playing. I know I am very particual about playback, but this is not something that could be overlooked when it happens.

The best way to discribe it is that it looks like a frame or 2 is missing or jumpped over during playback.

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Answer 9

Mar 27, 2014 11:37 AM in response to Michael Grenadier

are you looking at it "actual size" or full screen. Still playing smoothly here. Looping away.

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Answer 10

Mar 27, 2014 11:42 AM in response to Schiemer

I'm running 10.6.8. I'm doing a deep scan of an external drive using disk drill trying to recover a missing photoshop file. It's got another 6 hrs to go. I'll probably have to leave it running when I leave tonight. I'll try restarting in Mavericks when I come in tomorrow and see if there are any issues in playing your file.

I'm looking at it very closely. Playback in youtube and vimeo is always problematic, prone to hiccups. I always recommend using 720 files for vimeo or youtube to my clients rather than 1080 as the playback seems more dependable. But since your file is 720...

Still playing smoothly.

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Answer 11

Schiemer Author

Level 1

11 points

Mar 27, 2014 11:50 AM in response to Michael Grenadier

I have tried at actual, full screen, using 1080p30 size from the original compressed to 4mbs (something my system can handle without blinking), 720p30, etc. etc. etc. Nothing stops the jumps. Even the activity monitor shows only 5%-15% processing being used by QT and/or FCP.

I plan to pull my old G5 out of the closet, it runs 10.6.8 and is still rock solid for video editing in FCP7. If it plays smooth on that 8 year old system then I know it's Mavericks. I'll try that tonight. It floors me though why the original 1080p30 will playback perfect via FCP and Motu, but once I turn of external monitoring and just try to play it via the preview monitor it is jumpy as **** and then the exported file does the same thing. So strange. I even deleted prefences of FCP and that does help with screen playback initially, but it always gets jumps in it after playing for a while.

I knew I should not have started using Mavericks and I HATE FCP10.

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Answer 12

Schiemer Author

Level 1

11 points

Mar 27, 2014 1:28 PM in response to Schiemer

Can anyone else running a differnt Mac OS other than Maverick confirm to me that the video linked above plays perfectly smooth for them?

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Answer 13

Mar 27, 2014 1:46 PM in response to Michael Grenadier

should see some posts from other "experts" shortly.

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Answer 14

Meg The Dog

Level 6

13,561 points

Mar 27, 2014 1:51 PM in response to Michael Grenadier

Not an expert, but -

I downloaded the test file yesterday, put it on a Thunderbolt raid.

Mac OS 10.8.5

I see the hitch about 3/4s of the way through the move. Hitch in movement visible and repeatable. It appears as a dropped or repeated frame. Cannot be located stepping through the file frame by frame.

Tried it in both QT7 and QTX. Same result.

Took the file into Premiere, played fine on the Premiere Canvas.

Changed the Premiere timeline to 29.97 frame rate and exported.

The hitch moved to the first second or two of the file, again, repeatable.

Wondering if it has something to do with the long GOP format, or the even 30 fps frame rate? Just guessing from the peanut gallery.

MtD

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Answer 15

David S.

Level 7

20,630 points

Mar 27, 2014 1:58 PM in response to Michael Grenadier

I downloaded the video file and it played back smoothly without any frame drops on a 2012 MacBook Pro retina off the internal SSD in 10.8.5.

I also have a dual quad core Mac Pro 2x2.26, and have occasional playback issues with 1080/60p h.264.

Interestingly, it plays back uneventfully and natively on FCP X on the same retina MBP.

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