strange issue with imap and a blank empty sent messages folder

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Level 1

9 points

strange issue with imap and a blank empty sent messages folder

So here is a weird one. I got a new computer last week, Mac mini core duo. Set everything up, synced my .Mac and it set up mail. I have been using mail, i try to view Sent Messages for one of my IMAP accounts which should have 10,200 messsages in it. I see nothing. On rebuild mailbox it goes blank. Some messages I send are stored until i rebuild mailbox and it again is empty. On my other Macs (powerbook 12" and dual G4) I am still able to view and manipulate this same accounts Sent Messages. One webmail everything still works as well. While trying to copy old messages down to the Powerbook to archive them I noticed that it was very slow, and messages which were not cached already caused the Copy to fail. I am using Courier IMAP with Maildirs and Postfix on FreeBSD as a server.

Mac mini Core Duo, Mac OS X (10.4.7), upgraded ram, bluetooth mighty mouse and keyboard

Posted on Aug 21, 2006 2:50 PM

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Answer 1

Aug 21, 2006 9:17 PM in response to Tim Bithoney

I don't fully understand what the situation is here. One thing that you should be aware of is that rebuilding a mailbox requires some time, and the mailbox appears empty until the rebuild is complete.

Another issue is that you talk about Sent Messages. Does it appear as a generic folder icon? If so, Mail is not using it to store sent messages...

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Answer 2

Tim Bithoney Author

Level 1

9 points

Aug 22, 2006 6:41 AM in response to David Gimeno Gost

Mail is using it as the "special" Sent Messages folder. The rebuild takes a few minutes but the result is an empty mailbox, and an empty direcrtory under Library > IMAP yadda yadda > Sent.imapbox

All of my other Mac running Mail work fine with this mailbox.

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Answer 3

Aug 22, 2006 6:58 AM in response to Tim Bithoney

What do you mean? There is no such thing as a "special Sent Messages folder" in Mail...

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Answer 4

Tim Bithoney Author

Level 1

9 points

Aug 22, 2006 7:07 AM in response to David Gimeno Gost

The mailbox with the paper airplane icon then. Basically the problem is not that I am picking the wrong mailbox. I tested it a multitude of different ways (webmail, 2 accounts on this same Intel Mac mini, and 2 other PowerPC Macs). I only have this issue on the new intel Mac mini. Even a fresh account with only one IMAP account set up on the Mac mini fails to be able to read the Sent mailbox.

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Answer 5

Aug 22, 2006 7:25 AM in response to Tim Bithoney

But that mailbox appears as Sent in Mail, not as Sent Messages. The fact that you talk about Sent Messages is what makes me believe Mail is displaying such a mailbox somewhere in the mailboxes list with a generic folder icon, hence not using it for storing sent messages when using this Mac.

In the Finder, go to ~/Library/Mail/IMAP-username@mailserver/. With that folder open, do Edit > Select All (⌘A), then Edit > Copy (⌘C), and paste it in your reply to this post to let me see the names of the files and folders it contains -- you may disguise any mailbox names you wish to keep private.

If there is more that one Sent-named folder there, which is the one that you would expect Mail to use for storing sent messages? Which of the *.imapmbox folders within the "IMAP-" account folder in the Finder appear in Mail with generic folder icons somewhere in the mailboxes list?

Also, what are your settings in Preferences > Accounts > Mailbox Behaviors > Sent?

Note: For those not familiarized with the ~/ notation, it refers to the user's home folder, i.e. ~/Library is the Library folder within the user's home folder.

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Answer 6

Tim Bithoney Author

Level 1

9 points

Aug 22, 2006 7:38 AM in response to David Gimeno Gost

my IMAP server uses INBOX as its root.. hence that folder only contains...

INBOX.imapmbox
INBOX

However one level down in INBOX I have...

DeSmit.imapmbox
HealthCareSource HR.imapmbox
SimTech.imapmbox
Lange International.imapmbox
Sandhill Photography.imapmbox
Sales People.imapmbox
Hosting.imapmbox
Marwan.imapmbox
Lucidics.imapmbox
Jeorgea Beck.imapmbox
Web Marketing.imapmbox
Sent.imapmbox
SEBA.imapmbox
Merchant Accounts.imapmbox
The Hired Pens.imapmbox
Kuhl Therapy.imapmbox
Keen Films.imapmbox
PeopleVision.imapmbox
Competition.imapmbox
East Street Woodworking.imapmbox
Cambium Learning.imapmbox
Legal.imapmbox
LFCG.imapmbox
Mailing Lists.imapmbox
Drafts.imapmbox
Ipswitch.imapmbox
Prism Scienceworks.imapmbox
Printers.imapmbox
Mindspark7.imapmbox
Air Media.imapmbox
Demios.imapmbox
Cabem.imapmbox
LexiPixel.imapmbox
Apple.imapmbox
Regent Theatre.imapmbox
Proun Design.imapmbox
Prospects.imapmbox
Goodwin PR.imapmbox
Xplana.imapmbox
Competitive Analysis.imapmbox
Banimon.imapmbox
Zaid.imapmbox
Stay In Touch.imapmbox
Junk.imapmbox
UI Research.imapmbox
Faxes.imapmbox
Dewey Nichols.imapmbox
StrideRite.imapmbox
Future Works.imapmbox
Franklin Cafe.imapmbox
Epsilon.imapmbox
CitySoft.imapmbox
Bearak.imapmbox
Pridgeon Design.imapmbox
BDS.imapmbox
Highland MBP.imapmbox
Create TV.imapmbox
Crystal Clean.imapmbox
Longs Jewelers.imapmbox
Lollipop.imapmbox
AFT.imapmbox
Wholen.imapmbox
Peppercoin.imapmbox
RocketShop.imapmbox
Rocket North.imapmbox
Barrister Books.imapmbox
Venture Capital Fund of NE.imapmbox
bodygard.imapmbox
Blakely Project.imapmbox
Comm Promo.imapmbox
Judith Aronson.imapmbox
Vendors.imapmbox
Trash.imapmbox
Accounts.imapmbox
Agena.imapmbox
Manifesto.imapmbox
Portfolios.imapmbox
Progressive Roofing.imapmbox
Process & Deliverables.imapmbox
Advertising.imapmbox
Chris Zikakis.imapmbox
Mojo Marketing.imapmbox
Lauer Learning.imapmbox
NOME.imapmbox
Nantucket Kneepants.imapmbox
NEMO.imapmbox
Nickelsen Partners.imapmbox
Essential.imapmbox
Lawler Kang.imapmbox
Accounting.imapmbox
Compuworks.imapmbox

Inside of Sent.imapbox we have...

Messages
Info.plist

And inside of Messages are the 2 messages I sent today after testing another rebuild command...

29601.emlx
29193.emlx

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Answer 7

Aug 22, 2006 7:52 AM in response to Tim Bithoney

Ouch! This account requires INBOX to be put in Preferences > Accounts > Advanced > IMAP Path Prefix for Mail to handle it properly, and you should do the same on your other Macs as well, even if Mail seems to handle the account properly there.

After doing that, it could very well be that the other Macs that previously worked fine with this account also start having problems with it as a result of losing track of which folders on the server should be used for what. You can fix the problem by selecting any folders that may appear now at the bottom of the mailboxes list within an (@) account group, doing Mailbox > Use This Mailbox For, and choosing the appropriate usage for that mailbox.

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Answer 8

Aug 22, 2006 7:53 AM in response to David Gimeno Gost

I don't know if this will shed light or muddy things.

On my IMAP server, my email is stored under ~/Mail (on the server). My Sent mailbox -- the one with the paper airplane icon on the Mail client -- is stored in ~/Mail/Sent Messages on the server. On my Powerbook, they are in ~/Library/Mail/fred@myservername/Mail/Sent Messages.imapmbox/

The Contents of what is under Sent (with the airplane icon) is what is under the Sent Messages folder.

Sent Messages does NOT show up in my folder list in the Mail client, by the way.

So, Sent messages are pointed to in the client via Sent and are stored in the mail hierarchy under the Mail/Sent Messages.

Fred

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Answer 9

Tim Bithoney Author

Level 1

9 points

Aug 22, 2006 7:57 AM in response to David Gimeno Gost

All of that is already working. Everything is correctly set up. I have been using Mail.app since 2003 without any problems. Trust me, this is something new and different, I am not using the wrong mailbox or incorrectly setting up IMAP.

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Answer 10

Tim Bithoney Author

Level 1

9 points

Aug 22, 2006 8:00 AM in response to Frederick Avolio

I changed all of my Macs as well as my Webmail client to use "Sent" for Sent Messages. I can ls the Maildir on the server and see there are 10k messages there, Mail.app for INTEL can't seem to sync them correctly. It has no problem with any other Mailbox on the same server, including other accounts Sent boxes (I use 3 accounts on my server, 1 for each domain I use) This however is my largest, with 10k sent messages, the other have less than 3k in sent messages.

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Answer 11

Aug 22, 2006 8:07 AM in response to Tim Bithoney

What do you mean? If your mailboxes appear as subfolders of INBOX, then the account requires INBOX to be put in the IMAP Path Prefix field for that account to work as expected in Mail, regardless of whether it has been working without issues for several years or not. Mailboxes on the server should not appear as subfolders of INBOX.

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Answer 12

Tim Bithoney Author

Level 1

9 points

Aug 22, 2006 8:15 AM in response to David Gimeno Gost

All copies of Mail are correctly configured with a prefix of INBOX, all copies show mailboxes under the @Account Name folder.

I just did some new testing on my Dual G4, and I am now expereincing the same problem, seems like I hit a maximum message limit for a mailbox!

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Answer 13

Aug 22, 2006 8:33 AM in response to Tim Bithoney

OK. Maybe there is something else going on here, but setting the IMAP Path Prefix wasn't supposed to fix the problem by itself. You keep ignoring some questions and missing some steps in each of my posts. The next step after properly configuring the account is to select in Mail (from the (@) account group) the folder that should be used to store sent messages on the server, and do Mailbox > Use This Mailbox For > Sent on it, as the folder you seem to want to use for that purpose is not the one that Mail would try to use by default.

As to possible mailbox limits, you may want to take a look a the following article:

Overstuffed mailbox is unexpectedly empty

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Answer 14

Tim Bithoney Author

Level 1

9 points

Aug 22, 2006 8:33 AM in response to Tim Bithoney

Is there a way to see the debug information or raw IMAP data... I want to see what Mail is getting as a reply from the server as to the size or # of messages in the mailbox Sent. No matter what it is receiving it somehow is ignoring all messages in the mailbox.

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Answer 15

Tim Bithoney Author

Level 1

9 points

Aug 22, 2006 8:39 AM in response to David Gimeno Gost

I have already done all the steps you were suggesting, they are part of my normal setup procedures for a new copy of Mail.app, sorry for the confusion.

I saw that article but it seemed odd that my existing Macs had been working. It now seems that the Dual G4 is expereincing the same issue. I am hesitant to try and rebuild the Powerbook G4 as it's my only means of seeing those messages in Mail.app currently.

Looks like the next step is to archive my old Sent mail to other smaller mailboxes and try again.

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