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Tracking down and eliminating the cause of a security breach.

One of my banking online accounts was breached. The bank’s fraud department could tell from the IP address that someone from the Ukraine had logged on. That bank does not use SSL/TLS encryption. So, I know that this was not as a result of the Heartbleed Bug that was recently discovered. I would really like to know how this happened so that I can avoid a recurrence.


I can think of two possibilities: 1) the problem with security on Safari that was fixed with a Mavericks update in late February and 2) key logging malware may have somehow been installed on my MacBook (2011 running Mavericks 10.9.2, Safari 7.0.3). I don't know of any other ways someone could have obtained my username and password for that account. I am changing passwords (and usernames where possible) on my online accounts using “strong” passwords. I do not do not access online accounts from unsecured wifi networks.


The bank said to run virus software on my computer which I used to do diligently when I was on a Windows PC before 2008, but I’ve read in these forums that running antivirus software on a Mac could cause more problems that it solves. What do you suggest I do to ensure that my MacBook is secure? I can post an EtreCheck report, if that helps.

MacBook Pro, OS X Mavericks (10.9.2), 17" late 2011 model Safari 7.0.3

Posted on Apr 19, 2014 12:11 PM

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Posted on Apr 19, 2014 1:00 PM

  1. Have good security on your home wifi network, including timed access control (MAC address filtering).
  2. Running a one-time virus scan on your Mac would be reasonable to look for any malware that would be there now, but I would avoid keeping AV software running all the time. I have used Sophos and ClamX AV in the past and both seemed reputable.
  3. AV software is a hotly debated topic on this forum (especially among those with scant knowledge on the subject. The more scant the knowledge, the hotter the debate.) There is a good page here about Mac security: The Safe Mac » Mac Malware Guide : Do I need anti-virus software? Personally, I do not have any third party antivirus software running all the time in the background, because when I did, it slowed my Macs down, and never found any malware anyway (but was good at wasting my time with finding false positives). Macs are not PCs, OSX is not full of security holes the way Windows is, and there is not a swamp of viruses and other malware out there waiting to pounce on your Mac the way there is for PCs. It's not like there is no Mac malware out there, but there is way, way less out there than PC malware. If you are careful what you download (stay away from pirated software and ***********) and what attachments you open, you should be OK. Mavericks has anti-malware protection built into it already.
  4. The security problem from February was related to SSL and TLS, so if your bank does not use those, then that was not the issue. Apple Issues Fix for Security Problem on Macs - NYTimes.com - NYTimes.com And the keylogger thing seems rather far-fetched to me. More likely, you responded to a phishing email and gave them your username and password yourself. These emails are usually pretty easy to spot- usually the spelling and grammar are off. They smell, like bad fish, and thieves. In any event, you should not respond to some email with a link requesting your account info.
  5. Robust passwords are a very good idea. Mavericks makes this very easy to do and will remember them for you with industry standard encryption. If you are especially worried you can change your passwords regularly.
  6. I'd get a new bank.
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Question marked as Best reply

Apr 19, 2014 1:00 PM in response to JSA on my Mac

  1. Have good security on your home wifi network, including timed access control (MAC address filtering).
  2. Running a one-time virus scan on your Mac would be reasonable to look for any malware that would be there now, but I would avoid keeping AV software running all the time. I have used Sophos and ClamX AV in the past and both seemed reputable.
  3. AV software is a hotly debated topic on this forum (especially among those with scant knowledge on the subject. The more scant the knowledge, the hotter the debate.) There is a good page here about Mac security: The Safe Mac » Mac Malware Guide : Do I need anti-virus software? Personally, I do not have any third party antivirus software running all the time in the background, because when I did, it slowed my Macs down, and never found any malware anyway (but was good at wasting my time with finding false positives). Macs are not PCs, OSX is not full of security holes the way Windows is, and there is not a swamp of viruses and other malware out there waiting to pounce on your Mac the way there is for PCs. It's not like there is no Mac malware out there, but there is way, way less out there than PC malware. If you are careful what you download (stay away from pirated software and ***********) and what attachments you open, you should be OK. Mavericks has anti-malware protection built into it already.
  4. The security problem from February was related to SSL and TLS, so if your bank does not use those, then that was not the issue. Apple Issues Fix for Security Problem on Macs - NYTimes.com - NYTimes.com And the keylogger thing seems rather far-fetched to me. More likely, you responded to a phishing email and gave them your username and password yourself. These emails are usually pretty easy to spot- usually the spelling and grammar are off. They smell, like bad fish, and thieves. In any event, you should not respond to some email with a link requesting your account info.
  5. Robust passwords are a very good idea. Mavericks makes this very easy to do and will remember them for you with industry standard encryption. If you are especially worried you can change your passwords regularly.
  6. I'd get a new bank.

Apr 19, 2014 2:52 PM in response to arthur

Thanks for your response.

1) Although I don't have times access, our wifi is secured.

2) I will look into a one-time run of a virus scan. I like that option much better than having it running all the time.

3) Although I knew that the topic of AV software on Macs was hotly debated, I thank you for your thorough explanation.

4) It sounds like the February Safari problem was similar to the recent Heartbleed Bug except from the computer end (via Safari) as opposed to the web site end where the SSL is implemented. IS that right? As for phishing, I absolutely never send login information to ANYone. As a matter of fact, my login information is not written or recorded anywhere. If my kids or family needs the info, I only give it to them verbally. As a matter of fact, I am so skeptical about emails that when I received the fraud alert email from the bank, I called the bank to verify that the email was legitimate. I have opened emails that end up being suspicious, but never download attachments or click on links.

5) I don't use the operating system or software to keep my passwords because that seems to defeat the whole purpose of keeping password to yourself.

6) Easier said than done, but worth considering.

Apr 19, 2014 5:45 PM in response to JSA on my Mac

JSA on my Mac wrote:


1) Although I don't have times access, our wifi is secured.

If not using a strong password with WPA2 encryption, it's not secure.


About the only way a Keylogger could be installed on you computer is if somebody had physical access to it or was given shared access by a user over the network. The only known malware capable of doing anything close to that is rare and has only been used against small targeted groups, such as Tibetan sympathizers. As a result, most A-V software doesn't even look for it. MacScan from SecureMac is the only one that specializes in Spyware and it's not very accurate, so be certain that you aren't trashing something needed by you or your software.


The Apple SSL flaw did not actually involve Safari at all. It was in the SecureTransport portion of the OS X security library which is used by many Apple applications that require a secure connection, including Mail and Messages. In any case, I don't see how that could have been used based on your description.

Apr 19, 2014 6:54 PM in response to JSA on my Mac

I can think of two possibilities: 1) the problem with security on Safari that was fixed with a Mavericks update


It's unlikely that that bug was ever exploited. It could only have been done if you were induced to visit a bogus website masquerading as the bank site, a very difficult trick to bring off.


2) key logging malware may have somehow been installed


Also very unlikely, but if you want to check for it, ask for instructions. Running any kind of "anti-virus" software is a complete waste of time.


By far the most likely causes of the breach are not the ones you mentioned, but rather these:


1. The bank's internal security was breached for reasons that have nothing to do with you. A common occurrence.


2. You used a weak password that could be guessed, or you used the same password on more than one site.


3. You fell for a "phishing" scam.

Apr 20, 2014 7:00 AM in response to JSA on my Mac

You say that your bank site does not use SSL/TLS. If that is true, how does your bank site protect the integrity of the connection? If the site is not using HTTPS (ie, encrypting the HTTP transactions with SSL/TLS), then all transactions would be completely open and available for snoops to intercept.


Most likely, you have mis-interpreted something that your bank told you. However, if this is true - if the bank site is not using HTTPS, and there's no lock icon anywhere in the address bar of your browser when logging into the site - then you need to immediately stop using all online functions, then find a new bank. Under no circumstances should anyone ever consider using a bank site that isn't using HTTPS! Unless you also would choose to use a bank that kept your money in a cardboard box hidden underneath someone's bed.


If the bank site is actually secure, then I would refer you to the reasons that Linc posted for a possible breach. Having a keylogger, while technically possible, is actually pretty unlikely.

Apr 20, 2014 10:18 AM in response to thomas_r.

It is entirely possible that the bank rep gave me the wrong explanation for why the Heartbleed Bug is not a problem for them. I only repeated what they told me. There is, of course, a lock icon on the web site as well as a "https" address. Below is a screenshot of the security certificate for the bank. Does anything about it look suspicious?

User uploaded file

Apr 20, 2014 10:26 AM in response to Linc Davis

Linc Davis,

Of the options you suggest, the most likely would be a problem with the bank's internal security. The fact that none of my other online accounts seeem to have been breached reinforces that notion.


I realize this is beyond the realm of Mac support, but do you know if there is a way to find out whether the bank experienced other breaches? I would think that the online fraud department would know, but they didn't mention anyone else having problems when I called about my problem. I called a trusted phone number to verify the legitimacy of the fraud alert email and then, I initiated the phone call to discuss it. The rest of the situation is described in my original post.

Apr 20, 2014 11:00 AM in response to JSA on my Mac

Sounds like the bank site is using SSL, then. Probably they told you that they're not using OpenSSL, which is the implementation of SSL used by most servers, and which is the one that was vulnerable. There are other implementations, though, which your bank could be using.


There is absolutely no way to find out if the bank suffered other breaches unless 1) you connect with a large number of other users of that bank and find out they also had breaches, or 2) the bank owns up to a breach.

Apr 20, 2014 11:05 AM in response to JSA on my Mac

Is the now-fixed Apple SSL flaw different from the Hearbleed Bug? They sound very similar.


They are actually very different. Apple's bug was a Mac OS X bug, and could have allowed malicious SSL certificates to be verified as legit, which could be used to induce "trust" on the part of the user for a malicious site. Heartbleed, on the other hand, is a server bug that allowed for random bits of data to be fished out of the server's RAM by malicious requests. See:


Apple’s “gotofail” SSL bug

What is Heartbleed?


(Fair disclosure: The Safe Mac is my site, and contains a Donate button, so I may receive compensation for providing links to The Safe Mac. Donations are not required.)

Apr 20, 2014 1:52 PM in response to JSA on my Mac

If you go to this web page you'll see that SunTrust gets an A- rating for both their servers and if you click on the IP address of each server you'll see a detailed analysis of each server and exactly what SSL and TLS they use:


https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=www.suntrust.com


Edit: Just noticed that OldToad showed this earlier, but you can drill down deeper using my approach.


BTW, an "A-" is very good.


Message was edited by: MadMacs0

Tracking down and eliminating the cause of a security breach.

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