Mini DV - Firewire import from camera vs. Deck import through cables

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Level 2

230 points

Mini DV - Firewire import from camera vs. Deck import through cables

I noticed that when I import/digitize my mini DV cassettes from my camera that I can only use the DV setting. I would love to use uncompressed 10-bit as I have a black magic card/cables but don't know if it's worth renting a deck to do this. Will the quality be the same because the source is DV? Could importing from a deck using an uncompressed 10-bit signal give me a better image? I have to get the best image for my client when I output. I can't seem to get a bigger image than 720x480 using firewire. He wants to show this on a wide screen TV for a large group of people that may buy his project. Hate to have large pixels showing.

I thought I heard firewire imports 5 to 1 when using the DV settings. Is that true? Is so, another reason why I need to go uncompressed.

I was thinking about going to a friends house that has a deck, record to his Avid uncompressed, then output uncompressed to a quicktime file for me to import on my FCP. Is this a waste of time???

Thanks in advance!

G5, Mac OS X (10.3.9)

Posted on Aug 24, 2006 11:49 PM

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Answer 1

Aug 25, 2006 12:54 AM in response to Kevin Ham

I thought I heard firewire imports 5 to 1 when using the DV settings. Is that true?<<</div>

Not true. Capturing via Firewire is merely a straight data transfer - from the 1s and 0s on the tape to 1s and 0s on your hard drive. What you may be thinking of is the fact the DV25 format (DV/DVCam/DVCPro) is compressed 5:1 in camera before it goes to tape.

I can't seem to get a bigger image than 720x480 using firewire. He wants to show this on a wide screen TV for a large group<<</div>

To get widescreen images, you're best bet would be to shoot with a camera with 16:9 native chips. If you want to record a higher resolution image, then you'll need a camera capable of recording that - its known as HD. Standard definition video (such as your 720 x 480 DV) won't look all that great when stretched to fit a widescreen.

-DH

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Answer 2

Studio X

Level 7

27,229 points

Aug 25, 2006 6:33 AM in response to Kevin Ham

The only advantage to going to 8bit/10bit is the color space depth. This has some advantages when working with composting and titling as it smoothes out some of the artifacts from the processing. Otherwise, you are still dealing with the same number of pixels as DV and, as David notes, any degredation of the images has already happened in the original processing to the DV format.

FWIW, critical evaluation of images suggest that 10bit does not demonstrate any significant benefit over 8bit and is more difficult to work with.

If you feel the need to up the color space, you can do this using compressor. Be aware, the file sizes grow alarmingly. DV runs at 3.6mb/s, 8bit SD runs at 24mb/s and 10bit runs at 27mb/s so a robust drive system is a good thing to have.

good luck.
x

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Answer 3

Kevin Ham Author

Level 2

230 points

Aug 25, 2006 6:38 AM in response to David Harbsmeier

Thanks for that info!!!

So you are saying that going through a deck uncompressed would not improve the quality or image size, correct? I'm stuck with that 720x480 image size? When you say data transfer through firewire, doesn't it make a difference since I'm actually playing video instead of transferring files?

There is an option to import through firewire at "DV Anamorphic". Should I re-import my footage at that setting so it could possibly look better when I output the image 16x9?

Again, thanks so much for helping!

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Answer 4

Studio X

Level 7

27,229 points

Aug 25, 2006 6:54 AM in response to Kevin Ham

Once the image has been captured by the CCDs in the camera, processed, compressed and recorded to tape, the quality of the image is fixed.

Moving recorded images from your DV tape to your hard drive using Firewire is a direct digital file transfer. The only processing that goes on when 'capturing' using FCP is the audio and video elements are separated into distinct streams for ease of editing. No alteration of the 1s and 0s that represent the image take place.

Importing files as 'anamorphic' is only appropriate if they have been recorded as such. If you have recorded material using the 16:9 anamorphic setting on your camera, by all means, you SHOULD have captured using that setting. However, if the images were NOT recorded as 16:9 anamorphic, capturing them this way will yield a distorted image - not what you want.

Perhaps some time with the manuals would be well spent.

good luck.
x

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Answer 5

Aug 25, 2006 6:55 AM in response to Kevin Ham

I'm stuck with that 720x480 image size?

Yes. That's the limitation of NTSC DV.

When you say data transfer through firewire, doesn't it make a difference since I'm actually playing video instead of transferring files?

No.

There is an option to import through firewire at "DV Anamorphic". Should I re-import my footage at that setting so it could possibly look better when I output the image 16x9?

You should only import as "DV Anamorphic" if you recorded it in anamorphic. Recapturing non-anamorphic footage as anamorphic is going to do nothing for you. All it does is flag the footage as "Anamorphic", which you can do with your already-captured footage without recapturing.
Here's a good read:
http://www.kenstone.net/fcphomepage/understanding_169.html

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Answer 6

Kevin Ham Author

Level 2

230 points

Aug 25, 2006 9:48 AM in response to Kevin Ham

Thanks everyone for the help. I really appreciate it!

Had a different related question. I've created titles in motion that I have imported and cut into my FCP timeline. They are not over picture, as they are separate shots. Well my timeline was set to DV to go with the video. When I put the motion titles in the timeline and export the entire sequence, those titles don't look as good. Should I make the timeline settings uncompressed so my motion titles would look better for output? Would that affect my video, which is DV? My guess is that it would be ok but not 100% sure.

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Answer 7

Kevin Ham Author

Level 2

230 points

Sep 16, 2006 3:35 PM in response to Kevin Ham

I did a test and digitized my DV footage through a DVCam deck on an Avid at 1:1 resolution. I compared that footage to my firewire capture on FCP and noticed a BIG difference. I saw no quality lost trough the DVCam deck. I saw lots of digital distortion with fast movements on the footage that was captured trough firewire.

What's going on? I thought firewire didn't cause any lost of quality. I was really hoping to go with firewire because now I will have to rent decks instead of using my camera to capture. If I am doing something wrong, please let me know. I would love to be wrong here.

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Answer 8

Sep 17, 2006 6:20 AM in response to Kevin Ham

How are you viewing the footage to compare it? Do you have a monitor? or at least a TV connected to your computer through an A/D convertor? or are you viewing this on your computer monitor?

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Answer 9

Kevin Ham Author

Level 2

230 points

Sep 17, 2006 11:07 AM in response to Jeff Hubbach

I can see the difference on a CPU monitor and TV monitor for both.

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