5500/250 or 7200/75

Question

Level 2

235 points

5500/250 or 7200/75

Hello,

My first computer (made in 1997) was a PowerPC 5500/250 MHZ, with 32 MB of Ram Memory and a HD of 2 GB; it has no Ethernet.
Now I have at my disposal an PowerMacintosh 7200/15MHz (made in 19xy), with 192 MB of RAM Memory and 2 HD (4 GB and 500 MB); it has Ethernet.

I use Mac OS X 10.3.9 in my iBook G4 800 MHZ and so my daughter on her iMac G4 800 MHz.

The question are:
1) should I take the bigger HD, the Ethernet port and Ram from the 7200 and put in the 5500, or they are not adequate to move? It looks that the 5500 is a more recent computer.

2) if I bring one of the two (or both) to the Info Room of the school (where I work most of the time and where the computers run under Windows and I also have installed GNU/Linux), which version of GNU/Linux I could use in each machine?
And if one stays at home, which browser I should use in Mac OS 8 or Mac OS 8.6? (I do not use M$).

Thanks in advance.
Regards,

Jorge Lucas (The guy from Rio Grande do Sul)

iBook G4 800 MHz, Mac OS X (10.3.9)

Posted on Aug 25, 2006 6:54 PM

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Answer 1

Jeff

Level 6

12,316 points

Aug 25, 2006 7:47 PM in response to Jorge Lucas

Unfortunately, there is very little that you can swap from the 7200 to the 5500 because:
(1) The 7200 uses SCSI hard drives, while the 5500 uses an IDE hard drive.
(2) The 7200's ethernet port is soldered to the motherboard, unless it has an additional ethernet port on a removable PCI card. If the latter is the case, then it could be transferred to the 5500.
(3) The 5500 should use EDO memory, because its memory controller takes advantage of the faster timing. It is unlikely that you'll find EDO memory in the 7200, because only FPM memory should be used in it. Apple warned about possible damage to the 7200's motherboard, if EDO memory were used in it. Now, if you don't mind a slight decrease in performance, you could use the 7200's FPM memory in the 5500, without causing any damage. The 5500's memory must have a 1K or 2K refresh rate, whereas the 7200 can use memory with a 1K, 2K, or 4K refresh rate. If you were to install a memory DIMM with a 4K refresh rate in the 5500, it would only be recognized at ½ of its density. This means that a 64 MB DIMM would appear to only be 32 MBs. The 5500 has (2) memory slots, each of which can support an 8, 16, 32, or 64 MB DIMM, for a maximum of 128 MBs of memory.

As for GNU/Linux, I can't advise you on that. For OS 8.5.1 - 9.2.2, I still use Internet Explorer 5.1.7, but it is 5 years-old now and becoming incompatible with certain web sites' content. Perhaps some others who have used alternative browsers can recommend one for OS 8.6.

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Answer 2

Aug 26, 2006 1:52 AM in response to Jorge Lucas

According to AppleSpecs and everymac-the 5500/250 should have Ethernet(10BaseT) build in.
Some hints
Netscape Browser
BrowserList
Linux
look for Distributions
I've got a SuseLinux for my PM 7600-didn't test yet.

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Answer 3

Jeff

Level 6

12,316 points

Aug 26, 2006 7:24 AM in response to AppleIIFreak

There is no "built-in" ethernet on the 5500/6500 motherboard. Because so many 5500s in the US were sold to the educational market, the COMM II slot had a factory-installed ethernet card. This is the ethernet port, to which AppleSpec and EveryMac referred. Because it's a plug-in card, it can be easily removed, and that could explain why Jorge indicated that his 5500 had no ethernet. In the 6500s, the same motherboard had a modem card installed in the COMM II slot.

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Answer 4

Jorge Lucas Author

Level 2

235 points

Aug 26, 2006 2:44 PM in response to Jorge Lucas

Hello Jeff and AppleIIFreak,

I want to thank you both of you for the infos and your time.

Although the questions were answered by you, I want some extra informations, that may look very silly.

Jeff said the if I take the RAM memory of the 7200 and put inside the 5500, the 5500 will show just half of that.

More than one year ago, I did that taking the 128 MB of this same 7200 and inserted on this same 5500, and the 5500 showed that it had 96 MB of RAM memory (the original 32 MB + the half of the 128 MB that was added); at that time I did not know why.

But the owner of the 7200, at that time, did not allowed me to stay with the memory; he offered me the computer to use it as a whole, not to take parts of it; so I pulled the memory and placed again in the 7200.
Now, he changed his mind.

My question now: if I do that again, (with the help of a computer technician -that I will have to pay- and that can addapt also a battery - the original is not available around here -), the 5500 with the additional 128 MB/2, will work as if having 96 MB of the original type RAM memory or, will not show any improvement?.

It may look silly, as I said before, but you, Jeff, said that I would see a slighty decrease in performance; that decrease is referred only to the additional not adequate RAM memory?

As far as I could read in <http://darrel.knutson.com/mac/www/browsers.html>, a link sent by AppleIIFreak, I should try use iCab in older OSes, but just in case that I bring one to the school and put Linux, I will have to make deeper tests.

I would like to install Uuntu but the 5500 could not handle it.

Regards,

Jorge Lucas (the guy from Rio Grande do Sul)

Message was edited by: Jorge Lucas

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Answer 5

Aug 26, 2006 2:44 PM in response to Jeff

Thanks a lot-until now I "trusted" the Specs and everymac. Are service and repair manuals more correct in specifications(for the 5400/5500 the ethernet card is mentioned as an upgrade)?

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Answer 6

Aug 26, 2006 7:48 PM in response to Jorge Lucas

"Jeff said that if I take the RAM memory of the 7200 and put inside the 5500, the 5500 will show just half of that."
Jeff said that if you use RAM with "4k refresh rate" it will show only half of the memory.IF the RAM has a refresh rate of 2k(don't ask me how to find out that!) it should work normal I believe(last URL). The only articles I found(macgurus.com,knowledge base) about memory upgrade:
Power Macintosh: Memory Configurations
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=20434
Power Macintosh 7200: EDO Memory Can Damage Logic Board
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=20101
Power Macintosh: Using FPM, EDO, SDRAM, and SGRAM
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=19456
Power Macintosh 5400 & Performa 6400: Adding Memory
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=19598
Sorry did not find anything specific for the 5500 memory upgrade!

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Answer 7

Jeff

Level 6

12,316 points

Aug 26, 2006 10:39 PM in response to Jorge Lucas

" More than one year ago, I did that taking the 128 MB of this same 7200 and inserted on this same 5500, and the 5500 showed that it had 96 MB of RAM memory (the original 32 MB + the half of the 128 MB that was added); at that time I did not know why."

Because the largest DIMM that a 5500 can recognize is 64 MBs, a 128 MB DIMM can be used, but will only be recognized at ½ of its rated density. Those 128 MB DIMMs typically have a 4K refresh rate, but they would still be recognized as 64 MBs in a 5500, even if they had a 1K or 2K refresh rate. When using memory with a 4K refresh rate in a Performa/Power Mac 6360, 6400, 6500, 5400, or 5500, an 8 MB DIMM would be recognized as 4 MBs, a 16 MB DIMM as 8 MBs, a 32 MB DIMM as 16 MBs, and a 64 MB DIMM as 32 MBs.

" It may look silly, as I said before, but you, Jeff, said that I would see a slighty decrease in performance; that decrease is referred only to the additional not adequate RAM memory?"

The performance decrease to which I referred was related to the use of the 7200's Fast Page Mode (FPM) memory in the 5500, as opposed to the Extended Data Output (EDO) memory that it was designed to use. In everyday use, you probably wouldn't notice any change in overall performance, given the processor and processor speed (603e @ 250 MHz) of your 5500.

" My question now: if I do that again, (with the help of a computer technician -that I will have to pay- and that can addapt also a battery - the original is not available around here -), the 5500 with the additional 128 MB/2, will work as if having 96 MB of the original type RAM memory or, will not show any improvement?"

Yes, some users did install 128 MB DIMMs, because they were less expensive than the specified 64 MB DIMMs. As you have found, the 128 MB DIMM is recognized as 64 MBs and will function as such without problems. As for the 5500's internal battery, it's a 4.5-volt alkaline (Rayovac 840, 841, or equivalent). As a substitute, some clever individuals used (3) 1.5-volt AA (alkaline or lithium) batteries, and wired them in series to produce 4.5 volts. You'll need to remove the red and black wires with the small connector from the original battery, and then solder them to the "battery pack." If you have access to an electronics supplier, you may be able to find a plastic battery holder that accommodates (3) AA batteries in series. After creating the replacement battery, you'll need to find a good location to mount it, so that it isn't resting on top of the other internal components on the motherboard.

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Answer 8

Denis Eddy

Level 4

3,571 points

Aug 27, 2006 6:53 AM in response to Jorge Lucas

Jorge
Forgive a late addition to this discussion, and a mild digression in that Jeff and Rainer have already advised you well. I recently came by (it's a long story ...) five 7300/180 and 200MHz, a 7600/200, a G3 beige DT and a 7200/120. I already had two 7300/180s, two beige G3 DTs and three black 5500/250s, each of which had been upgraded with 400MHz processors (and max. RAM, &c.). Of all of this list, guess which machine is the most severely upgrade-challenged?

My 5500/400s, using Sonnet L2 G3 upgrades, are perfectly competent machines, their so-so screen size and video quality notwithstanding. If you do not wish to use its TV video capacity, using a comm. slot 10/100Base-T card instead of the internal modem, and a two-port USB card in the solitary PCI slot, makes them even more useful. 64MB 2k EDO RAM cards can be had for under USD15 each on eBay, and enable most work to be done without VM enabled. A newer, faster HDD also improves their (and your) lot.

I don't know what is the availability of Apple paraphernalia in your neck of the woods, but something to keep in mind is that it may be cheaper and more satisfactory, in the long run, for you to spend the money that upgrades for either 5500 or 7200 would have cost on a (native) G3 beige DT, with its capacity to handle AV cards and USB/FireWire cards, and with room to expand the number of hard drives. I upgrade all machines that I acquire, on the Everest Principle, but cheerfully admit that it is usually not economically rational to do so.

Apple IIe; 68K: 11DT + 4PB; PPC: 5DT + 3PB; G3: 6DT System 6.0.8 to OS 10.4.x

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Answer 9

Jorge Lucas Author

Level 2

235 points

Aug 27, 2006 8:30 AM in response to Denis Eddy

Hello again,

Now I thank AppleIIFreak, Jeff and Denis, for the additional help.

It looks like I found Apple Computers' collectors; i do not include myself in that category, but I can say that I never had, at home, a computer running Windows (and probably will never have).

The problem is that in my school (around 1400 students and 80 teacher) I am the only one that uses Mac. So, since most of my school time is in the Info Lab (8 computers), the most I can do is offer the teachers and students an alternative to that Windows OS.

And the obvious other OS that I can install at those machines is GNU/Linux (I install Debian as server and Net BSD, Debian and Ubuntu as terminal and Ubuntu also as a complete system).

If the 7200 that I get for free now, were in good shape I would install some GNU/Linux distribution and bring it to the school, but its monitor (Apple Multiple Scan 17" Display works perfectly, when it wants; sometimes the color of the screen turns green, or other color).

I installed the iCab browser, following that BrowserList link offered by AppleIIFreak, but was not a pleasant experience. So I did not go forward trying to install some GNU/Linux, because I can not feel secure that the computer will held the task. And I can not offer a worst option if I want to show that the computer world has other OSes (believe me that a lot of people down here, do not even know that there is another OS, besides Windows).

Now I can add the answer to Denis: there is no shop here where I can find a Mac computer, even though this city where I live, Santa Maria, is about 300,000 inabitants and have 3 or 4 graduation courses in Computer Science.

I would like to put the 5500 to run at home, for my wife (that do not like computers, but uses for e-mail) or to give away to a sister that does not have one, but lives 500 miles away.

If I have the chance to speed the 5500 at large I would (it was my first and bought directly from Apple Brasil), but here there is no Sonnet at repair shops where I could get a bargain and I would prefer get another iMac G4, iMac G3 (problem is the display), a Cube (the German guy that gave me the 7200, has a cube and he will sell me when he receives a new MacMini).

I will sometime get an MacBook (I did not see one yet and I read about the glussy screen that could be troubled) and a new iMac to my younger daughter, when she gets a place in the University. I need computers that do not harm my 52-year old eyes.

Well, this is not a chronicle...

Regards,

Jorge Lucas (the guy from Rio Grande do Sul)

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