Previous 1 2 Next 24 Replies Latest reply: Jul 12, 2014 10:39 AM by BDAqua
mac midiguy Level 1 Level 1 (60 points)

The original 2 GB hard drive in my Power Mac 8500 died with no warning and so there is no desk top, notthing when I power up.

 

This 8500 was tricked into running OS Tiger ( 10.4 ) from an internal second hard drive. I can't even sign into that second hard drive.

 

It seems that i have to replace that original 2 GB hard drive in order to bring this Power Mac back to life.

 

How do i replace the original hard drive on my 8500 ?

 

Am I limited to installing a 2 GB hard drive or can I install a larger drive and partion a 2 GB space for the OS 8.5 or OS 9.1. start up that this Power Mac seems to need ?

  • Ralph Landry1 Level 8 Level 8 (39,840 points)

    The difficult part is finding SCSI drives...you might want to look into an ATA card so you can use the less expensive drives.

     

    You may be able to boot the machine by placing the cable connector from the failed drive on the good drive so it appears first in the chain of devices.

  • mac midiguy Level 1 Level 1 (60 points)

    Are there pictures to show me how to install that ATA card and relocating that cable connector ?

  • mac midiguy Level 1 Level 1 (60 points)

    Would this work and could it get installed in my 8500 ?

     

    http://store1.sonnettech.com/product_info.php?products_id=105

     

    I have come to trust the cards Sonnet makes because for example my 8500 has been modified with a Sonnet card to run as a G4.    

     

    Advice and comments very much appreciated here.

  • Ralph Landry1 Level 8 Level 8 (39,840 points)

    The user guide for the Power Mac 8500 is: http://manuals.info.apple.com/MANUALS/0/MA784/en_US/0307056APM8500UG.pdf

     

    And the Technical Specs are: http://support.apple.com/kb/SP386

     

    With SCSI drives, you can switch the drive search sequence by just switching their order on the ribbon cable.  Since the first drive is not working or booting, try removing it and attach the connector of the ribbon cable to the second drive and see if it will boot.

     

    The Sonnet card is for the Power Mac G-series machines and may not work with the 8500, but they are all PCI bus machines so it is possible...worth a call to Sonnet since they don't list the 8500 series on their website.

     

    I added a Sonnet G4/450 MHz to my old Power Mac 7600/132 and it was a great machine...still works too.

  • Ralph Landry1 Level 8 Level 8 (39,840 points)

    If Sonnet says the ATA card will work in the 8500, then Appendix B of the User Guide shows how to install the expansion card in the computer's PCI bus.  Routing the cable to the drive just depends on where there is convenient space to pass it to the drive.

  • mac midiguy Level 1 Level 1 (60 points)

    That certainly sounds simple by simply switching drive order on the ribbon cable.

     

    For clarification: that Sonnet G4 card was installed years ago ( actually a very simple installation because of Sonnet's instructions/pictures manual ) and the 8500 was fast in OS 9 but slow as frozen molassis when switched to OS X Tiger.

  • Ralph Landry1 Level 8 Level 8 (39,840 points)

    I can agree with that...when I replaced the 604 with the Sonnet G4 it was like a totally different computer

     

    The Tiger performance is also a factor of the amount of memory installed and the speed of the bus...nothing you can do about those factors with a vintage machine.  I like the old 7600 but do not use it for much since I am so accustomed to the speed of the new machines...but it is fun to crank it up and run OS 9

  • Jeff Level 6 Level 6 (11,350 points)

    Before investing in a controller card for your 8500, have you replaced the motherboard's internal 3.6-volt, ½AA lithium battery?  A very weak or dead battery can cause a dark screen at startup, making the computer appear to be dead.  That Sonnet SATA PCI controller card is likely not compatible with your 8500, because of the PCI bus specification required.  For compatibility reasons, you'd be better off searching ebay for a used/pulled Acard AEC-6260M (Ultra ATA-66) or an AEC-6280M (Ultra ATA-133) PCI controller card, designed for IDE/EIDE hard drives - not SATA drives.  You could also look for a used Sonnet Tempo ATA-100/133 PCI controller card for IDE/EIDE drives.

     

    "That certainly sounds simple by simply switching drive order on the ribbon cable."

     

    Keep in mind that switching the order of connection on the SCSI ribbon cable may require removal of the "TE" (Termination Enable) jumper on the hard drive, if it's no longer the last device on the cable.  Whatever device becomes the last one connected to the ribbon cable must have a "TE" jumper setting for proper bus termination.  The Apple OEM SCSI optical drives do not typically have a "TE" jumper setting.  They have a "TERM PWR" jumper setting, but that isn't the same thing.  For this reason, the optical drive can't be the last device connected to the ribbon cable.  There must be a SCSI device connected to the end of the ribbon cable, that can provide bus termination by means of a jumper.

  • mac midiguy Level 1 Level 1 (60 points)

    OK, replaced the battery. No luck.

     

    You are right that Sonnet SATA PCI controller card is NOT compatiable. Sonnet tech wrote : "

    the architecture of your system is too early for this card.  That's the earliest SATA card we carried, so unfortunately we wouldn't have one."

     

    Thanks again for your input and providing me with detailed information.

  • mac midiguy Level 1 Level 1 (60 points)

    Sonnet tech said: " the architecture of your system is too early for this card ".

  • mac midiguy Level 1 Level 1 (60 points)

    Ralph Landry1 wrote:

     

    You may be able to boot the machine by placing the cable connector from the failed drive on the good drive so it appears first in the chain of devices.


    No chance of frying thIs Digital Audio 8500 Power Mac ??????

     

    At the moment I have the top housing off and can disconnect the SCSI data cable from the back of the original Apple/Seagate 2 GB hard drive ( model ST32151N ) as well as the power cable from that hard drive.

     

    Now just for greater certainty for my understanding your advice:

     

    move the SCSI data cable from the original Apple/Segate 2 GB drive to the good drive a Western Digital WD400 40 GB drive manufactured in 2003.

     

    AND disconnect ONLY the power cable from the Apple/Segate 2 GB right ?

     

    Incidently i tried to remove the Apple/Seagate drive however it would only come out about 2 or 3 inches. It seems that something is holding it in place.

     

    Please note that my tech computer know how is simply unplug old part to plugin new part, upgrade RAM, replace those 3.6 volt batteries, changing the processor on this 8500 PowerMac.

     

    Taking this 8500 apart has been a frightining experience since i think i know what i am doing but in reality i don't.

     

    Once again your help is greatly required and certainly appreciated for your time and knowledge.

  • mac midiguy Level 1 Level 1 (60 points)

    I forgot to add the fact that the 40 GB SCSI  data cable comes from a PCI card  i.e. there are three PCI slots whereby two slots are take by a FireWire and USB card the third slot has the SCSI PCI card.

     

    Can I still move the SCSI data cable from the dead Apple/Segate 2 GB drive to the Western Digital drive ?

  • mac midiguy Level 1 Level 1 (60 points)

    Having  difficulty trying to disconnect the SCSI data ribbon and hard drive power cable from the Apple/Seagate drive.

     

    For me it's not that easy as the pictures show in the "Take Apart" service manual.

     

    Does it take brute finger force or can I use needle nose plyers ? Or....????  There is not much room for these stuby fingers.

     

    Once again HELP please.

  • mac midiguy Level 1 Level 1 (60 points)

    Removing the SCSI data ribbon and hard drive power cable from the Apple/Seagate drive took brute force. Why the??? did they make it so difficult?

     

     

     

    I also came to the conclussion that the Apple/Seagate 2 GB drive is dead. I purchased this 8500 brand new and this year it is 18 years old. A PC/Mac repair guy checked it for me and said it is certainly dead.

     

    So how about this for a replacement hard drive

    http://www.codesrc.c...p?title=SCSI2SD

    ???

     

    Comments/advice please.

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