iMac G3

I don't think fragmentation of directory data will
affect the fragmentation of files.

I was wondering if it (fragmentation of directory data) could be part of the original problem. (I am also wondering why it isn’t (so far, at least) moving any of the directory data.)

I can't believe
it is taking 20 hours, but as long as you see it
making progress... The less free space you have, the
longer it takes. Unless the programs is unable to
move a file for some reason, it should put the files
in the first part of the volume and leave the empty
space at the end of the volume. I hope that's the
way it ends up.

The progress is extremely slow -- almost imperceptible. So far, it seems to be moving files about 2/3 of the way up (with respect to the overall graphic), but not above. As a matter of fact, it seems to not be moving up beyond a small block of directory data (a white fragment). There’s a decent amount of contiguous stuff (the green segments) above it, sprinkled with some short segments of files (blue). And there’s still quite a bit of contiguous stuff below it, also heavily sprinkled with segments of files.

You could get one of these...

http://www.pcmicrostore.com/PartDetail.aspx?q=p:105026
60

It's basically an external drive case without a case,
and relatively inexpensive. You might find a better
price if you keep an eye on dealmac.com.

It’s a cable -- an $18 USB 2.0 to IDE Drive Adapter.

Then you
can go find any old IDE drive and use it as your
backup drive. Or if you find a good "two coupon"
deal on an 80 or 120GB IDE drive (dealmac.com again),
you can put it inside the iMac and use the current
10GB drive as your external backup drive.

Your iMac's USB port is slow (and you can't boot from
it), but it will work fine as a way to backup you
important data periodically (and before doing stuff
like defragging your drive). Back ups are
important...

The port is VERY slow (USB 1.1).

But, again, it seems like a lot of jury rigging to solve a problem, and which will then leave me with a drive I may not have much use for subsequently. Quite frankly, before I’d be inclined to run out and plunk down a few hundred dollars on an external drive, I’d want to do enough “homework,” to be reasonably certina that I was getting something that really made sense for my long-term needs. I don’t know enough about drives -- especially the ones that “play well” with the new iMacs -- to buy one tomorrow; and I really don’t want this problem to fester for any length of time (I can’t afford to be without a machine nor run the risk of loosing my files becasue of undue delay).

...BTW, do you know anything about PNY Flash Drives?

OK, now I’m really concerned: The TechTools Pro optimization routine didn’t seeme to be making any further progress, so I rebooted the iMac without pressing the “C” key, to see if any of the optimization had any effect on the HD‘s bootability. Yeah, it did -- but not in any way that was helpful: Instead of a grey screen with a firmware prompt, I found myself staring at an empty grey screen. I then tried to boot to the TechTools Pro CD (by pressing the “C” key), but the iMac didn’t boot -- I ended up at the empty grey screen again. I tried to boot to an OS 9.1 CD I have, as well as an OS 9.0.4 CD; neither worked. So, I sat there repeatedly staring at an empty grey screen. I shut down the iMac for a while, and repeated numerous attempts to reboot -- both to the HD as well as to each of the 3 CDs. Nothing. Finally, on one of the CD attempts (OS 9.0.4), the machine booted.

I don’t know what is going on here, but at this point I’m afraid to shut the iMac down, and more afraid of what’ll happen if I have an unexpected power outage.

Any ideas how to boot when holding down the “C” key doesn’t work???

A complete shutdown and restart should make the C key
work.

One would think so, right? However, as it turns out, the only CD that now seems to consistently boot when the “C” key is held down is the OS 9.0.4 Installation CD.

That routine is something that happens before
the OS startup, so it can't be related to the problem
with the hard drive. If it doesn't work, you can try
resetting the PRAM, which may have become corrupted
during all of your activity.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=2238

I kinda doubt that corrupted PRAM would result in such “selective” rebooting problems (i.e., seemingly now booting to one CD, but not others).

Do you still have access to the hard drive contents
with the Mac booted up from CD? If so, I would find
a way to back up your critical data, if you have not
done so already.

To bring you up to date on this continuing saga:

Realizing that a lot of my ongoing worry (and aggravation) is a result of a lack of backup, I broke down and bought an external HD. I spent $100 for a CompUSA USB 2 drive. I was concerned about buying any peripheral equipment right now -- particularly a HD, and especially a strictly USB device, as I wasn’t sure what constraints it would create when I do move up to a new iMac in the not-too-distant future. One of the “downsides” I had heard about USB drives is that they can’t serve as a boot drive on Macs -- one needs Firewire for that. Well, apparently that no longer is true with the Intel-based Macs. So, my concern about buying a HD that wouldn’t be too useful to me in the future melted.

The first thing I did was copy the entire iMac HD onto the new drive. At least now I have my files! 🙂

I then attached the drive to this machine (my other, “questionable” Mac), and used it to run some TechTool Pro tests. (The reason I did this was that the TTP CD I have -- and previously used to check the health of the iMac HD -- was not the latest version; there were additional updates. Of course, I downloaded them and created an updated version of TTP. However, it’s not on CD, it’s on my HD. And I can’t run a thorough TTP test on the same HD that TTP is located.) This time, TTP told me that the System, System Resources, and Mac OS ROM files were corrupted. Rather than attempt a long and tedious system reinstallation (I’d have to start from OS 9.0.4, the only OS for which I have the Installation CD, and then proceed with a series of updates that I had downloaded from the Apple site), I simply copied those 3 files from this machine (the “other” Mac). I ran TTP on the result, and everything was fine.

I then returned to the “broken” iMac, and replaced the contents of its HD with the contents of the “fixed” copy that now was on the USB drive. I then booted to (what I thought was) the “repaired” iMac. However, it did not boot -- the same old empty (no firmware prompt -- nothing) grey screen.

So, that’s where I currently am. Very frustrating. About all I can think of doing at this point is attempt to do a ”clean” installation of the system software on the iMac, starting with OS 9.04, and, if that works, following with a series of upgrades till I get back to 9.2.2. Of course, I’ll then have to rummage through the resulting “old” system folder to collect my third-party inits, etc. But I am without a clue as to what other alternative I may have.

Y'know, I hate to jump in with another possible
factor from out of left field, one that I haven't
seen here yet, but I vaguely remember a friend's
trayloader several years ago that would only boot
into Open Firmware like this... and it wasn't the HD
(tho the HD had problems too). My memory is that it
had corrupted firmware. I really wish I remembered
more, but I think what we did was do a reset from
that OF boot window (search on "reset NVRAM" in the
kbase) and/or updated it. I think we also got it a
new backup battery, the bad battery was wreaking
havoc. My memory is that we were then able to run
TechToolPro from a CD and get the HD problems cleaned
up and reinstall the OS. But I'm not sure. All I do
remember for pretty sure was that the OF-boot-window
issue was NOT related to the HD in that case.

Hmmm...that’s a new thought.

I really don’t know anything about firmware issues, so I guess I’ll need to do a little (a lot?) homework. Given the apparent lack of success that the software route has so far led to, maybe it is something other than software (i.e., firmware).

I’ll hold off on messing with any software reinstallation.

Well, to reset the Open Firmware settings, I’m supposed to type “reset-NVRAM” at the open firmware prompt (). However, since I stopped receiving that prompt a while back (I now am presented with just an empty grey screen, with no prompt -- no message at all), this approach obviously doesn’t apply.

This may be of interest, since it sounds like your
situation previously and now.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=25249

It is interesting. It could be my situation, except that the HD was not upgraded, and everything was working the way it should since I got the machine. It’s a iMac 233, factory-equipped (as far as I know) with a 10 G (actually, 9.3 G) HD. The solution (were my situation one of the several they are talking about) is to erase and paritition the drive. (This sounds just like the issue you raised earlier in the thread.)

Although not directly related to your situation, this
article says how to get the Open Firmware prompt.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106752

This was interesting too. At least I was able to get back them firmware prompt!

FWIW, I tried it with the installation CD loaded, just to see what wpould happen. When I tried to eject it, nothing happened, and I got an error message:

“eject cd not found; ihandle ff9d2d80 phandle ff83cb90 EJECT method failed”

I then tried the same thing again, this time without loading the CD, and entering the mac-boot command after the firmware prompt.This resulted in an image of a Mac folder in which there was a blinking question mark; moments later, the blinking question mark vanished, and was replaced by the Mac “happy face” icon. But nothing happened after that -- it just sat there.