ATi X1900 XT vs. Nvidia FX 4500

i'm hoping to be ordering a Mac Pro within the next week, but have the dilemma of the GPU option. I'm upgrading from a Quad G5 which had a 7800 GT, and running Final Cut Pro it seemed to be more than adequate, but recently have been highly getting into After Effects, Shake and am slowly getting into 3D stuff like Maya etc.. and have started noticing limitations with the 7800 GT i.e. previewing Anti-Aliasing and Motion Blur OpenGL not supported in AE.. etc..

So obviously would prefer not to go with a 7300 this time round, but i'm finding it hard deciding between the new choice of the X1900 and the FX 4500.

According to http://www.apple.com/macpro/graphics.html and the basic specs offered, apple give the impression the X1900 beats or is at least the same as the FX 4500, yet there is a £800 price difference. Why? there must be a good reason.

I won't be need stereo-3D goggles, and i won't be doing anything extremely hardcore, i am a 25 year old independent film-maker. I am willing to spend the extra for the FX 4500 if it's worth it, if anything it will mean avoiding 3 weeks without a mac!! (shock). But would rather pocket that saving and get a macbook pro.

Basically what advantages are there with the FX 4500? will it play games as good as a X1900? are there some features in 3D and 2D rendering applications that will be limited with an X1900? does the FX 4500 support the DVI-VGA adapter? i've read only ATi cards support that adapter, and that would be a major boon for me, though nothing a cheap 2nd video card couldn't handle.

basically why would a film-maker hoping to expand his SFX skills, and doesn't have critical time-sensitive deadlines (i.e. a 10% boost in rendering times would only mean more snacking time) need the vastly more expensive FX 4500?

any help would be GREATLY appreciated
Thanx
Tj




Quad G5 Mac OS X (10.4.7) 7800 GT, 6GB, 1TB

Quad G5 Mac OS X (10.4.7) 7800 GT, 6GB, 1TB

Posted on Sep 2, 2006 10:02 PM

Reply
6 replies

Sep 3, 2006 10:21 AM in response to Trishul Thejasvi

Technically Quadro is not meant to be used for games, it is a professional DCC card and as such it contains features that normal gaming cards do not. Someone (mduell) has summed some of the info on another forum, so I'll post it here:

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** Product Line Differences between Quadro and GeForce (or Radeon)

There are notable differences between Quadro and GeForce cards, and a great effort is put into creating the perfect solution for both professionals and gamers.

- Anti-aliased points and lines for wire frame display

A unique feature of Quadro GPUs is supporting anti-aliased lines in hardware, which has nothing in common with GeForce's full-scene anti-aliasing. It works for lines (but not for shaded polygons) without sacrificing system performance or taking extra video memory for over-sampling. Since this feature is standardized by OpenGL, it is supported by most professional applications.

- OpenGL logic operations

Another unique feature of Quadro GPUs is supporting OpenGL Logical Operations which can be implemented as the last step in the rendering pipeline before contents is written to the frame buffer. For example workstation applications can use this functionality to mark a selection by a simple XOR function. When this function is done in hardware, such significant performance loss as a GeForce adapter would cause will not happen. OpenGL can be used for either consumer or workstation adapters.

The most common applications for GeForce adapters are full-screen OpenGL games. CAD applications work with OpenGL windows in combination with 2D-elements.

- Up to eight clip regions (GeForce supports one)

A typical workstation application contains 3D and 2D elements. And while view ports display window-based OpenGL function, menus, rollups and frames are still 2D elements. They often overlap each other. Depending on how they are handled by the graphics hardware, overlapping windows may noticeably affect visual quality and graphics performance. When windows are not overlapped, the entire contents of the color buffer can be transferred to the frame buffer in a single, continuous rectangular region. However, if windows do overlap, transfer of data from the color buffer to the frame buffer must be broken into a series of smaller, discontinuous rectangular regions. These rectangular regions are referred to as "clip" regions.

GeForce Hardware supports only one clip region which is sufficient for displaying menus in OpenGL. Quadro GPUs support up to 8 clip regions in hardware, keeping up the performance in normal workflow using CAD/DCC applications.

- Hardware accelerated clip planes

Clip planes allow specific sections of 3D-objects to be displayed so that users can look through the solid objects for visualizing assemblies. For this reason, many professional CAD/DCC applications do provide clip planes. The GPU of the Quadro family supports clip-plane acceleration in hardware - a significant improvement in performance when they are used in professional applications.

- Optimization on Memory usage for multiple graphics windows

Another feature offered by the GPUs of Quadro family is Quadro memory management optimization, which efficiently allocates and shares memory resources between concurrent graphics windows and applications. In many situations, this feature directly affects application performance and offers considerable benefits over consumer-oriented GeForce GPU family.

The graphics memory is used for frame buffer, textures, caching and data. NVIDIA's unified memory architecture allocates the memory resources dynamically instead of keeping a fixed size for the frame buffer. Instead of wasting the unused frame buffer memory, UMA (Unified Memory Architecture) allows it to be used for other buffers and textures. When applications require more memory from quad-buffered stereo or full scene anti-aliasing, manage resources efficiently has becomre a more important issue.

- Support for two-sided lighting

Quadro hardware supports two-sided lighting. Non-solid objects may display triangles from their "backside" when viewing the objects from the inside. Two-sided lighting prevents the lighting effect from dropping to zero when the object surface normal points away from the lighting source. As a result, these "backward-facing" triangles will remain visible from all possible viewing angles.

- Hardware overlay planes

The user interface of many professional applications often require elements to be interactively drawn on top of a 3D model or scene. The cursor, pop-up menus or dialogs will appear on top of the 3D-viewport. These elements can damage the contents of the covered windows or affect their performance and interactivity.

To avoid this, most professional applications use overlay planes. Overlay planes allow items to be drawn on top of the main graphics window without damaging the contents of the windows underneath. Windows drawn in the overlay plane can contain text, graphics etc - the same as any normal window.

The planes also support the transparency function, which when set allows pixels from underneath the overlayed window to show through. They are created as two separate layers. This prevents possible damage to the main graphics window and it also improves performance. Likewise, showing an overlayed window as transparent with graphics inside allows items in the user interface to be drawn over the main graphics window.

Clearing and redrawing only the overlayed window is significantly faster than redrawing the main graphics window. This is how animated user-interface components can be drawn over 3D models or scenes.

- Support for quad-buffered stereo for shutter glasses

The Quadro GPU family supports quad-buffered stereo, but GeForce GPU family does not. Quad-buffered stereo is a type of OpenGL functionality which does not depend on any special stereo hardware to show the effect. Two pictures, both double-buffered, are generated. Display is done alternately or interlaced, depending on the output device.

Many professional applications like 3ds max, SolidWorks or StudioTools allow users to view models or scenes in three dimensions using a stereoscopic display. It can be done by a plug-in like in Solidworks, an application driver like MAXtreme in 3ds max, an external viewer like QuadroView for autocad-based products, or by the application itself. The use of stereoscopic display is to have an overview in complex wire frame constructions, making walkthroughs much more realistic and impressive or simply to improve the display of large 3D-scenes. Stereo support on Quadro GPU family significantly benefits professional applications that demand stereo viewing capabilities.

- Unified driver Architecture

Quadro GPUs provide several additional features and benefits for professional optimization and certification in applications.

- Application Optimization

Quadro works closely with all workstation application developers that include Alias, Adobe, Autodesk, Avid, Bentley, Dassault, Discreet, Multigen-Paradigm, Newtek, Nothing Real, Parametric Technology Corp. (PTC), SDRC, Softimage, SolidEdge, SolidWorks, and Unigraphics, and it ensures that every application takes full advantage of the features provided by GPUs and that performance of graphics drivers are fully optimized.

- Certification

Quadro drivers undergo rigorous in-house quality and regression testing with various workstation applications. By testing new workstation drivers against numerous applications, higher quality drivers can be released.

(Adapted from Leadtek's website)
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Mac Pro Mac OS X (10.4.7)

Sep 4, 2006 7:14 PM in response to 3dluvr

thanks for the info 3dluvr, i was trying to find something like that 🙂

i think i'm going to go down a similar route as Ned suggested, i'm going to order with the 7300, that way i'll at least have something to work with and not have to wait almost a month, and will buy the x1900 seperately, i've seen a few sites which have under a week's wait, or wait to see what happens with the newly released X1950.. then i'll just see whether i feel limited by the card, and then upgrade to a 4500, as Ned said it should be easy to find buyers of the x1900.

Thanks Guys!! 🙂

Sep 13, 2006 8:02 AM in response to Trishul Thejasvi

I went thru a similar dilema and after a lot of research and Q&A I went with the X1900XT.. for Prosumer/Games its' a better card. To get your money's worth out of the 4500 you have to run specific apps that address it's features, which cost more than a mac pro many times, and are not used by me.

iApps, Games, FCP, you're better off with the X1900XT

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ATi X1900 XT vs. Nvidia FX 4500

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