anticlimatic
Level 1 (0 points)

Q: Trying to get an old LCII to boot up.

Computer powers on with no chime. Fan runs. Monitor recognizes power. Typically the screen remains black, but ocassionally will illuminate with the standard gray, and go no further. Hard drive makes a few normal sounding clicks, then goes silent. On one occassion I noticed the mouse trying to come to life, and was able to boot the OS by resetting the PRAM. Strangely, there was no system folder on the hard drive (which includes all control panels), everything was in black and white, but it otherwise seemed to function. Disk drive worked ok. I have not been able to get it to boot since. Replaced the PRAM battery with no effect. If the hard drive was fried, wouldn't it at least boot to the blinking question mark? Any tips on where to go next with this?

Posted on May 23, 2014 3:16 PM

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anticlimatic

Q: Trying to get an old LCII to boot up.

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  • Helpful answers

  • by BDAqua,

    BDAqua BDAqua May 23, 2014 4:42 PM in response to anticlimatic
    Level 10 (123,890 points)
    May 23, 2014 4:42 PM in response to anticlimatic

    Hi,

     

    Some mostly older startup keys, but yes, I think you should at least see a question mark, do you have the Disk Tools Floppy?

     

    Apple Boot Key Combos:

     

    Bypass startup drive and boot from external (or CD).... CMD-OPT-SHIFT-DELETE

     

     

    Boot from CD (Most late model Apples) ................. C

     

     

    Boot from a specific SCSI ID #.(#=SCSI ID number)...... CMD-OPT-SHIFT-DELETE-#

     

     

    Zap PRAM .............................................. CMD-OPT-P-R

     

     

    Disable Extensions .................................... SHIFT

     

     

    Rebuild Desktop ....................................... CMD-OPT

     

     

    Close finder windows.(hold just before finder starts).. OPT

     

     

    Boot with Virtual Memory off........................... CMD

     

     

    Trigger extension manager at boot-up................... SPACE

     

     

    Force Quadra av machines to use TV as a monitor........ CMD-OPT-T-V

     

     

    Boot from ROM (Mac Classic only)....................... CMD-OPT-X-O

     

     

    Force PowerBooks to reset the screen................... R

     

     

    Force an AV monitor to be recognized as one............ CMD-OPT-A-V

     

     

    Eject Boot Floppy...................................... Hold Down Mouse Button

     

     

    Select volume to start from............................ OPT

  • by anticlimatic,

    anticlimatic anticlimatic May 23, 2014 7:56 PM in response to BDAqua
    Level 1 (0 points)
    May 23, 2014 7:56 PM in response to BDAqua

    Thank you for responding.

     

    I do have a disk tools floppy, and have tried all of the possible key combinations, but the hang-up seems to occur before the machine looks for that input. I know these models typically don't boot past a black screen if the PRAM battery is dead, so I'm wondering why a new battery doesn't affect it. Which part contains the boot settings that the PRAM powers, is it the hard drive, or logic board?

  • by Jan Hedlund,

    Jan Hedlund Jan Hedlund May 24, 2014 3:23 AM in response to anticlimatic
    Level 6 (9,901 points)
    May 24, 2014 3:23 AM in response to anticlimatic

    Yes, as BDAqua indicated, you should at least see a floppy icon with a flashing question-mark.

     

    The computer will search for a valid startup disk in the floppy drive first.

     

    If you suspect that the hard drive is faulty (and thus somehow is blocking the computer), you could simply remove it and boot from a floppy for a test. However, there are other things to check. Begin by disconnecting and reconnecting cables. Reseat memory modules. Finally, examine the logic board (use a magnifying glass). Look for cracked/discoloured/bulging/leaking electrolytic capacitors (as well as other damaged electronic components) and bad solder joints. Of course, do not do anything inside unless the computer has been switched off and disconnected from the mains.

     

    Jan

  • by anticlimatic,

    anticlimatic anticlimatic May 24, 2014 12:32 PM in response to Jan Hedlund
    Level 1 (0 points)
    May 24, 2014 12:32 PM in response to Jan Hedlund

    Thank you for your response.

     

    After looking at the logic board I found one cap that had a good amount of black residue around the base of it, near the power supply. I left the machine running overnight to see if I could warm it up, and sure enough the computer booted the hard drive with no problems. Does thisfurther point to the caps being the issue? I have never recapped a board before, and unless I miss my mark those are "blind" surface connectors. How does one get solder between them and the board? What is a good solution to use to clean it?

  • by Jan Hedlund,

    Jan Hedlund Jan Hedlund May 25, 2014 3:59 AM in response to anticlimatic
    Level 6 (9,901 points)
    May 25, 2014 3:59 AM in response to anticlimatic

    >I left the machine running overnight to see if I could warm it up, and  sure enough the computer booted the hard drive with no problems. Does  thisfurther point to the caps being the issue?

     

    Electrolytic capacitors (that have not been in use for a while) may be "reconditioned" to a certain degree. So, yes, the described behaviour appears to indicate that there is a capacitor issue.

     

    >I have never recapped a board before, and unless I miss my mark those are "blind" surface connectors.

     

    There are two types of SMD (surface mount device) electrolytic capacitors. One is a barrel variant on a base plate, the other is a rectangular (often yellow) type. It is also possible that you will find normal barrel types with axial or radial leads.

     

    >How does one get solder between them and the board?

     

    If you wish to try replacing capacitors, much information about techniques can be found on the Internet. There are special tools for SMD. However, with access to one or two suitable standard soldering irons, desoldering braids, a desoldering pump and solder wire, you should be able to handle it. Wear safety glasses!

     

    >What is a good solution to use to clean it?

     

    Special equipment and cleaning liquids are available. Also, one can sometimes read about people using a household dishwasher (only with water) to clean circuit boards.

     

    Jan

  • by Appaloosa mac man,

    Appaloosa mac man Appaloosa mac man May 25, 2014 11:40 AM in response to anticlimatic
    Level 5 (4,330 points)
    May 25, 2014 11:40 AM in response to anticlimatic

    For what it is worth, just because the old capacitor was surface mount does not mean that the replacement must be surface mount.  Then you do not have an issue with inserting solder between the board and the component.

     

    Another technique we have used on older machines is to totally disassemble and reassemble the component parts.  Connections may have oxidation issues.  Reseating RAM, unplugging wires and reconnecting them.  Look for foreign objects like loose screws and paperclips.

  • by Jeff,

    Jeff Jeff May 25, 2014 5:47 PM in response to anticlimatic
    Level 6 (11,559 points)
    May 25, 2014 5:47 PM in response to anticlimatic

    "After looking at the logic board I found one cap that had a good amount of black residue around the base of it...  I left the machine running overnight to see if I could warm it up..."

     

    Are you sure that it wasn't just accumulated dust?  It's possible that what you observed is coincidental and not causal, as to the boot problems you've been having.  Perhaps the problem is within the power supply?  I'd want to rule that out, before removing/installing a capacitor.