color shift in imported RGB graphics?

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Level 1

112 points

color shift in imported RGB graphics?

Hi friendly knowledgable types 😉

I'm having a problem I just noticed - maybe I've always had this problem, but I noticed it today.

I make videos for web use. I typically use an imported graphic as the first scene/frame of the movie, so that while it is loading (before playback has started), this is what users see. Once the movie starts, I transition to the actual movie.

So I make the graphic in Photoshop, 720x540, change to 720x480, flatten the image. It's RGB, 72 dpi.

However, today I made a title in a very bright flourescent green color, and after importing into FCP, the green (and other colors) are muted, less vibrant, washed out looking a bit. It's very noticable when FCP and PS are open at the same time, and you place them side by side.

For a comparison, click this link:
http://www.karma-lab.com/images-pub/apple-q/title-compare_nt.html

I never noticed this before. I thought there was no problem with importing RGB? Am I missing something, some step, some setting? Thanks.

G4 Dual 800 QuickSilver / PBook G4 Titanium Mac OS X (10.3.9)

Posted on Sep 5, 2006 1:15 PM

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Answer 1

Steve-G-

Level 4

1,650 points

Sep 5, 2006 2:52 PM in response to Stephen Kay

What David Harbsmeier said plus… Is your monitor calibrated? Is the FCP screen grab from the canvas or from a QT movie?

I think the key is David’s second sentence.

“One thing to keep in mind so you don't stress too much about this; since this is for web viewing and since you will have NO control over how potential viewers have their computer monitors adjusted, small variances in color reproduction are virtually unavoidable.”

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Answer 2

Sep 5, 2006 2:03 PM in response to Stephen Kay

RGB is the color mode ... but what is the color profile of the image and does it match your monitor's color profile? And IF FCP has a color profile, it should match that too (I don't know that it does though).

One thing to keep in mind so you don't stress too much about this; since this is for web viewing and since you will have NO control over how potential viewers have their computer monitors adjusted, small variances in color reproduction are virtually unavoidable.

-DH

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Answer 3

Stephen Kay Author

Level 1

112 points

Sep 5, 2006 4:13 PM in response to Steve-G-

Thanks - I understand that everybody's monitors will be uncalibrated or calibrated differently, but I just want to see the same thing in FCP on my monitor as I do in Photoshop, on the same monitor, at the same moment. What happens after that, when people are viewing it on the web in Flash, I have no control over.

The two examples I put up are both taken with Apple's screen snapshot utility, from my monitor. So it shouldn't matter how my monitor is calibrated, right?

I go to Photoshop, I snapped the example. I go to FCP, where the Canvas is displaying the imported frame, and I snapped the example. As you can see, there's a fairly significant difference in the shade of green.

G4 Dual 800 QuickSilver / PBook G4 Titanium Mac OS X (10.3.9)

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Answer 4

Sep 5, 2006 4:52 PM in response to Stephen Kay

Having the correct color profile chaosen for the image in photoshop should give you a more accurate color preview on your desktop, so that colors you see there will look closer to the colors you'll get when the image reaches it's destination - in this case, FCP. There are still likely to be color shifts related to the difference between the RGB color space and the default color space for DV video in FCP.

This is likely to be most noticeable with bright or highly saturated colors.

One other thing you might try is to change the render settings for a copy of your sequence, under the video processing tab, from rendering in YUV to rendering in RGB - this should make your photoshop image keep it's original color better, but can show color shifts in video material that is getting re-rendered.

Hoep this helps -

Max

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Answer 5

Steve-G-

Level 4

1,650 points

Sep 5, 2006 5:21 PM in response to Stephen Kay

If your going to do a test, then you need to do it under the appropriate circumstances. You can’t compare, even on your monitor (calibrated or not) a screen shot in PS to a screen shot in the FCP viewer. It would need to be from the compressed version. The same version everybody else will be looking at. Furthermore web colors are extremely limited.

I applaud you attention to detail and I agree not having your monitor calibrated is a mute point in this case. However, If your going to be fussy you might as well be fussy from the beginning. There has to be a standard...

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Answer 6

Sep 5, 2006 6:04 PM in response to Stephen Kay

It isn't about monitor calibration; it's about the color profile of the image vs the color profile of FCP, or as Steve G correctly points out, the color profile of the final format.

In Photoshop, there are dozens of color profiles one can assign to an image beside the one set as default in PS preferences ... but I'm honestly not aware of a color profile per sae for video and web - just that web and NTSC color reproduction is pretty limited.

-DH

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Answer 7

Sep 6, 2006 1:01 AM in response to Stephen Kay

I think this is a colour space issue rather than a profile. Colour space is the range of colours reproduceable in a particular medium. Some colours, particularly fluoroescent ones are not reproduceable in all colour spaces (particularly limited ones like video). Even within the RGB and CMYK colour spaces you may find colours that are not defined.

In Photoshop there is a small square of colour and a triangle with an exclamation mark that appears when you select a colour that is outside the current colour space. If you choose colours that don't produce these warnings you may have better success.

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Answer 8

Stephen Kay Author

Level 1

112 points

Sep 6, 2006 1:45 AM in response to Trevor Kinsey

OK, that I can understand. You're talking about "gamut", right? (At least, that's what it's been called when I've encountered it with regards to printing. I've had some experience with RGB gamut vs. CMYK gamut, in regards to printing computer-designed graphics.)

I just hadn't been aware that there was a "gamut" for video (if I can use that same word), and it was limited. Somehow I thought (maybe stupidly) that we're all watching video on monitors, filming it on cameras with mini-monitors, somehow the range of colors would be the same.

So if the color shift I'm seeing is simply a gamut-related problem, I can accept that. Tomorrow I'll have to see if there's some way to set PS to only display colors in an NTSC (? is that correct) gamut.

I suppose that previously, I han't actually tried to make a title in a flourescent color (as I've been doing this same thing for quite awhile), so somehow I hadn't noticed the shift - so maybe it's not that bad. 😉

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Answer 9

Zapcrafter

Level 4

2,115 points

Sep 6, 2006 7:09 AM in response to Stephen Kay

The low-res proxy image that you see in the FCP Viewer and Canvas windows is unlikely to match your exported version. Have you played around with the Compressor and Video Processing settings in your Sequence Settings?

Zap

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Answer 10

Sep 6, 2006 8:48 AM in response to Stephen Kay

Photoshot and Final Cut

My issue is not with color spaces. I want APPLE to tell us the color profile for FCP!!!!

Do we just use our monitor's profile?
Do we assign a profile of "Don't Color Manage This Document?"

Also, I would like to know how we can identify color profiles for video.
-Nick

I feel like I'm in the time travel/warp scene in 2001 A Space Odyssey.

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Answer 11

meesto

Level 1

0 points

Oct 8, 2006 10:26 AM in response to Zapcrafter

I've been having a similar situation with FCP 5.1.2 where I want to export out sequential TIFFs from progressive PAL miniDV source. I can not get Compressor, QuickTime conversion or QuickTime Movie (using None for codec) to leave the color of the footage alone so that the output from FCP matches the input. No matter what I do it gets resampled which is BAD. I'd love to know how to get FCP to not resample my footage.

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Answer 12

Oct 10, 2006 12:50 PM in response to Nick Spiropoulos

I'm just getting into this same situation, or similar at least.
When I import a quicktime into my session, with all of the settings matching the clip, so no need to render, it imediately looks diffent in my FCP session than it does in quicktime and in the source program (Fusion). When I export using Quicktime Conversion, and have all the settings match again, the new independant quicktime has a different color than the original. If I open the original in Quicktime Pro and export it using all the same settings, the colors match, no alteration, so this is a FCP problem for sure.
How do I get FCP to not alter the color?

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Answer 13

Nov 17, 2006 12:25 PM in response to silliw drabmol

THIS IS HUGE. I will not accept FCP as a professional video platform until this is resolved. Apple needs to release either a software patch or a press release outlining the correct workflow!!!

-Nick

Dual G5 Mac OS X (10.4.7) Kona 2, LH, ioLA

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