DSL newbie blues

Question

DSL newbie blues

Until recently I had only a very simple two-machine network -- originally setup in OS9 -- that functioned quite well. There wasn't even a need to use a router, addresses, subnets or anything else, as all that was required was the Network Browser application that came with OS9. (This idea, BTW, came from David Pogue's tome *OS9: The Missing Manual*.) Whenever I needed to transfer items to the other machine (a beige G3) I'd reboot the iMac into OS9, transfer the file, and then go back to OSX. This sufficed given the infrequent need to perform such tasks.

Now, however, has arisen the need to set up a "real" network, and I'm flumoxed. What there is to work with is as follows:

• Mac OS 10.3.9
• iMac G3/333mHz
• AT&T Speedsteam 4100 DSL modem (for AT&T DSL service)
• (to which I need to add a) Linksys BEFSR41 Cable/DSL router w/ 4-port switch

Now, the AT&T person walked me through the setup for the DSL the first time around, and that appears to be working just fine. However, they won't support setting up a combined network on the Mac, being PC-centric. Nor does Linksys have anything on their site for using this router with a Mac. (The Apple guy at the local CompUSA told me that the Linksys WILL WORK with Macs, just that Linksys as a company won't support it.) Google searches resulted in nothing of substance in terms of tutorials.

What is needed is a step-by-step walk-through for setting this thing up right, starting with the basics (addresses, etc). Any helpful links, docs, or personal experiences would be appreciated.

Beige G3/266, Bondi iMac/333, Mac OS X (10.3.9)

Posted on Sep 6, 2006 11:09 AM

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Answer 1

Sep 6, 2006 1:10 PM in response to Michael Hetes

If the router is connected to DSL, it should be easy to connect the Mac to the router. I have a Linksys router and it does work with Macs. Another poster was asking a similar question, so I'll copy-paste here the same info.

Open System Preferences Network panel. Since you are connecting through the router, you should not need to install any extra software from the provider. In the Network panel, select next to "Show:," Built-in Ethernet. Then select the TCP/IP tab. Then next to "Configure IPv4:," Using DHCP. Normally, that should connect you to the router, which should give Internet access.

If that does not work, post back and hopefully someone with more networking expertise can help. Also, you may find more expertise in the Mac OS X area of the forums, since this is not a CRT iMac -specific problem.

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Answer 2

etresoft

Level 8

46,206 points

Sep 6, 2006 1:12 PM in response to Michael Hetes

Whether you are using Macs or PC makes absolutely no difference in how you configure your router.

Macs are really like a foreign language. It is like walking up to your average person and speaking French - they will just repond in English - only louder. What you have to do is speak in their language and translate (silently - to yourself) into Mac-speak. If you tell them you use Macs, they will clam up and refuse to help. That is because all they know how to do is tell you to insert a spyware-laden CD into your computer. Luckily, that CD doesn't work on a Mac. Even better still, you don't even need it.

Ok. Rant over. I've got that out of my system for another 23 minutes...

All you need to do is figure out how to connect the router to the DSL modem. There should be a cable from the DSL modem to your Mac. Unplug it from the Mac and plug it into the Linksys router. There is one Ethernet port different from the other 5, use it. Next, take two more Ethernet cables. For each Mac, plug one end of a cable into the Mac's Ethernet port and the other end into one of the ports on the router. Don't use the port nearest the power plug.

At this point, everything is connected properly. In a perfect world, it would all work. But, as usual, there is more to it. I don't know how ATT DSL connects. If it is using PPPoE, you can (from one of the Macs) go to the router configuration page, enter your PPPoE id and password, and you should be done. If not, wait for an answer here by another ATT DSL customer or post a question on the DSL Reports ATT DSL Northeast forums.

I actually though that I would just pop over to the att.net site myself and get the router setup instructions and just post a link here. Boy was I wrong! You are right about ATT. It really reminds me of the ATT of the good 'ole days. To quote their tech support page:

AT&T DSL Service does not support the use of the service through multiple computers.
AT&T DSL Service technical support does not support Networking Routers.
AT&T DSL Service support representatives do not provide technical support for configuration or installation to Macintosh users.

Friendly, huh?

Try the instructions above and see if they work. If ATT is using PPPoE, they must have given you and id and password with instructions where to enter it using some wacky PC software. If not, post whatever instructions you have and we'll try to make sense out of it here.

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Answer 3

Sep 6, 2006 2:12 PM in response to Michael Hetes

Michael,

Buy the router.

Plug the ethernet cord from the cable modem into the router port labeled WAN.
Plug in the router's wall wart.

Run ethernet cords from your Macs to any open numbered ethernet port on the router.

Restart the Macs.

If they don't automagically connect, see Kenichi's post above for how to set up your Macs.

There's no need to muck with the DSL modem's settings as long as it is securely and properly configured.

-Wayne

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Answer 4

etresoft

Level 8

46,206 points

Sep 6, 2006 2:23 PM in response to ParentalUnit

There's no need to muck with the DSL modem's settings
as long as it is securely and properly configured.

You can't be sure about that. Most DSL ISPs use PPPoE so they can oversell their DSL connections. Unfortunately, they want to hide this from customers so they just say "insert the installation CD which will take care of everything". It will - on a PC. On a Mac you would have to set things up manually. If they published those instructions, the PC people might realize that they don't need that awful installation CD either.

The original poster definitely has all the hardware and software he needs. He just needs accurate information on how to setup an ATT DSL connection. I'm sure someone at DSL Reports will be able to provide very specific instructions, if they are needed.

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Answer 5

Sep 6, 2006 2:40 PM in response to etresoft

etresoft,

1. That's unclear: "• (to which I need to add a) Linksys BEFSR41 Cable/DSL router w/ 4-port switch" We also don't know whether he even has ethernet cords for his Macs.

2. Once the DSL modem is configured and running (and it IS), it has an IP address. The router will get its address from the DSL modem. (This may require that, once everything is hooked up, everything be powered down and then turned on in the following order: DSL modem (wait for connection to be reestablished), the router (wait for connection to be established), then the Macs.) The router, not the modem, will assign IP addresses to the Macs. That is how routers work.

-Wayne

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Answer 6

Sep 6, 2006 3:03 PM in response to ParentalUnit

Yes, I agree with ParentalUnit. Once the router is taking care of the connection to DSL, it should be a simple network connection between the Mac and router. In fact, it should work "by default."

How about trying a Safe Boot restart (restart with Shift key held down)? Ethernet should still work, but in its default config. If that works, something non-Apple may be installed that is interfering with the connection.

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Answer 7

etresoft

Level 8

46,206 points

Sep 7, 2006 7:03 AM in response to ParentalUnit

OK, one more time before I lose interest and move on.

ATT is a big company. They may use different setups. I can't say for sure. It is very likely that it is using PPPoE. If that is the case, the Mac currently has PPPoE settings (id and password) to connect to the DSL modem. No, under PPPoE, it will not just work. The PPPoE settings will have to be moved from the Mac to the Router. The router will have to use the PPPoE id and password to talk to the DSL modem. The Mac will then have to turn off it's PPPoE connection since it will be talking to the router instead from now on.

You do not have to change any of the DSL modems settings, but you may have to change some of the wireless router settings.

Now, I don't know if ATT is using PPPoE or not. If not, just plug it all in and it will work. But this is very unlikely as almost every DSL ISP does use PPPoE. I sincerely hope that they aren't, because all the conflicting information on this thread is definitely confusing.

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Answer 8

Sep 7, 2006 9:32 AM in response to etresoft

OK. Thought I'd provide an interim status report:

Just plugging it in didn't do the trick (so the router has been disconnected, for now). At first I thought all was well, until trying to connect to AOL. Trying either of my browsers didn't work, either, so obviously something is amiss. And using the "Assist Me" button asked me for all sorts of data that I don't have or fully comprehend.

Going into the (OS 10.3.9) Network panel gave me the following info:
•TCP/IP: Using DHCP
All other fields were blank unless I am actively connected, which suggests to me that those numbers change every time I am "active". Right NOW those figures are:
-IP Address: 75.27.149.67
-Subnet: 255.255.255.0
-Router: 75.27.149.68

•PPPoE: Off
•AppleTalk: Off
•Proxies: None
•Ethernet: Configure: Automatically

I think I'll take Ken's suggestion and repost this to the Mac OSX Forum, but just thought it would be good to follow-up and let you know where things stand. If there any further comments, please feel free to post, as I'll be checking back here periodically until this issue gets resolved.

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Answer 9

etresoft

Level 8

46,206 points

Sep 7, 2006 10:04 AM in response to Michael Hetes

Using the configuration you listed, are you able to accesst the Internet? I can't tell from your message if 1) you had problems with the router and disconnected it or 2) you had problems with the router, disconnected it, and are still having problems.

The information you posted is exactly what is needed to diagnose a problem. Just let us know if this is a working configuration or not.

Then, plug the router back in and report this same set of information when connected to the router.

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Answer 10

Sep 7, 2006 11:32 AM in response to etresoft

Using the configuration you listed, are you able to
accesst the Internet? I can't tell from your message
if 1) you had problems with the router and
disconnected it or 2) you had problems with the
router, disconnected it, and are still having
problems.

Actually I couldn't do anything, but am not sure at this point if it's a configuration issue, or hardware. The lights on the router all seem to work, and the Speedstream 4100 DLS modem's indicated that "Ethernet" was in use.

After restarting the computer, it appears that the numbers above, for BOTH the IP Address and the Router, changed since I first quoted them. Apparently this will happen EVERY TIME I restart the iMac, just like a dial-up connection!

The information you posted is exactly what is needed
to diagnose a problem. Just let us know if this is a
working configuration or not.

Then, plug the router back in and report this same
set of information when connected to the router.

I'm going to try plugging in those numbers and see if they'll "stick", but I'm not hopeful that'll work.

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Answer 11

etresoft

Level 8

46,206 points

Sep 7, 2006 12:00 PM in response to Michael Hetes

Your original post said you had the DSL working when connected directly to a single Mac, correct?

Don't worry about the IP addresses. Not only will they change at every reboot, they could change every couple of hours. That is normal for a DSL connection.

At this point, I don't know if you even have a direct Mac-to-DSL modem connection working. If not, stop now. You need to call ATT to get that hooked back up.

Once you have your Mac back on the Internet, post the values from the Network connection window, just like you did before. Any non-default settings on the Mac's network connection need to be copied to your wireless router so that it will talk to your DSL modem the same way the Mac does now. I can't be any more specific than that because I don't know what those settings are - only ATT does. You may not have to do anything. But you will probably have to setup PPPoE. But I think we are well into "sanity check" time. You need to restore your original connection setup. Once that is working, getting it networked should take an additional 3 minutes.

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Answer 12

Sep 7, 2006 5:31 PM in response to etresoft

Your original post said you had the DSL working when
connected directly to a single Mac, correct?

Yes, like a charm. After I disconnected the router an went back to the old setup, including the Network panel settings, all was well.

Don't worry about the IP addresses. Not only will
they change at every reboot, they could change every
couple of hours. That is normal for a DSL
connection.

At this point, I don't know if you even have a direct
Mac-to-DSL modem connection working. If not, stop
now. You need to call ATT to get that hooked back
up.

Not to worry. It's OK, just as before. I dumped the newer setup and went back to what I previously had.

Once you have your Mac back on the Internet, post the
values from the Network connection window, just like
you did before.

•TCP/IP: Using DHCP
-IP Address: 75.35.186.214
-Subnet: 255.255.255.0
-Router: 75.35.186.213
-All other fields are empty.

•PPPoE: Connect using PPPoE: Off
-Account name and password fields are filled in, but the rest are empty.
•AppleTalk: Off
•Proxies: None
-All other fields are empty.
-Use Passive FTP mode: On
•Ethernet: Configure: Automatically

Any non-default settings on the Mac's
network connection need to be copied to your wireless
router so that it will talk to your DSL modem the
same way the Mac does now.

I don't see any other settings, unless I need to look elsewhere. How would I apply these things to my WIRED router anyway? Should I use the "Assist Me" feature? What choices do I need to make in the window that asks how I am connecting? (This puzzled me; am I connecting via a DSL modem if I go through a router? Or must I choose LAN?

I can't be any more
specific than that because I don't know what those
settings are - only ATT does. You may not have to do
anything. But you will probably have to setup PPPoE.
But I think we are well into "sanity check" time. You
need to restore your original connection setup. Once
that is working, getting it networked should take an
additional 3 minutes.

I appreciate your patience with this. I know I'm losing mine. 😉

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Answer 13

etresoft

Level 8

46,206 points

Sep 7, 2006 5:46 PM in response to Michael Hetes

OK. That is very good. Those are all the default settings. You should be able to plug the wireless router into the DSL modem and it should all just work, as the other responders said.

Apparently, though, you have tried this and it didn't work.

Try it again. Plug the router into the DSL modem instead of the Mac. Then plug the Mac into the router. In the Mac's network preferences window, click the "Renew DHCP Lease" button. Your numbers should change to:
-IP Address: 192.168.1.2
-Subnet: 255.255.255.0
-Router: 192.168.1.1

If your IP Address is a 169.x.x.x number, follow these instructions and change your speed to 100BaseTX, change your duplex to Full. Click the "Renew DHCP Lease" button again. If that fails, change duplex to half and try again. If that fails, Try 10BaseT and all the duplex settings again. If that fails, post back here...

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Answer 14

Sep 14, 2006 7:33 AM in response to etresoft

Well, this conflict between my Speedstream DSL modem and the Linksys router has finally been resolved. And one must say that the solution was embarassingly simple. So, with a mouthful of humble pie I offer the following:

For all my running around the 'net, scrounging up page after page of what I hoped was the "silver bullet" for this issue (not to mention bothering you all), all that was necessary was to pick up the old telephone and call Linksys tech support. The guy I spoke with could NOT have been more responsive and polite as he walked me through the whole process. It took about an hour -- half of which was spent on hold -- but it was worth it.

What finally solved the problem took no more than a few steps:
1. Reset the router to its' defaults (using the button in back).
2. Open the ROUTER's web-based utility and click on the "Status" location on the far right of the top row.
3. Hit the button labeled "DHCP Release".
4. After the screen refreshes hit the other button, the one marked "DHCP Renew". Save the changes.

I guess what fooled me -- and others I discussed this with both here and elsewhere -- was that there was no apparent reason for this thing NOT to work. The readings that were presented by the Network Panel (shown below) were in fact kosher, and the lights all lit up the way they should. A few people suggested making changes to the router settings that either did not work or resulted in things actually getting worse.

The manual for the unit didn't have the answer either. I'm not certain WHY there was a problem in the first place, but am glad it's over.

Again, for the record, the setup is as follows:
• Mac OS 10.3.9
• iMac G3/333mHz (Bondi blue)
• 288 MB RAM
• Siemens Speedsteam 4100 DSL modem (for AT&T DSL service)
• Linksys BEFSR41 v4.1 Cable/DSL router (w/ 4-port switch)

The specs from the Network Panel -- with ONLY the DSL modem attached -- were as follows:

TCP/IP:
Configure IPv4: Using DHCP
IP Address: 75.37.268.135
Subnet: 255.255.255.0
Router: 75.37.268.134
(All other fields: blank)
PPPoE:
Connect using PPPoE: OFF
Appletalk:
Inactive
Proxies:
(None selected)
Use Passive FTP mode: ON
FTP Proxy Server: (blank)
Ethernet:
Configure: Automatically

The specs from the Network Panel -- with BOTH the DSL modem and router attached -- are as follows:

TCP/IP:
Configure IPv4: Using DHCP
IP Address: 192.168.1.100
Subnet: 255.255.255.0
Router: 192.168.1.1
(All other fields: blank)
PPPoE:
Connect using PPPoE: OFF
Appletalk:
Inactive
Proxies:
(None selected)
Use Passive FTP mode: ON
FTP Proxy Server: (blank)
Ethernet:
Configure: Automatically

If one were to criticize Linksys, it would be for the following:
1. The "Register" page on their website did NOT list this model of router, and that pull-down list had huge gaps in it, necessitating the phone call in the first place.
2. That hold time was inordinately long.

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Answer 15

Eme

Level 5

5,636 points

Sep 14, 2006 11:48 PM in response to Michael Hetes

Hello Michael,

Also check to see if you need a firmware update for your Linksys router as this user did.

http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=3094613#3094613

Good luck.

Eme; )

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