You can make a difference in the Apple Support Community!

When you sign up with your Apple Account, you can provide valuable feedback to other community members by upvoting helpful replies and User Tips.

Looks like no one’s replied in a while. To start the conversation again, simply ask a new question.

Do not trust your Time Machine backups

I had a very unpleasant surprise yesterday : I found out the hard way that I could not trust my Time Machine backup...


Once booted in recvoery mode to select "Restore TimeMachine backup", the process starts and seem to happily finish a few hours later (surprisingly, it finished when actuall 3 hours of restoration are indicated). No error message, just a confident statement that backup is restored and the computer will reboot in 10 seconds.


Thing is, well, the computer wouldn't boot... I just got a black screen right after the Apple logo, no mouse pointer, just a plain black (backlighted) screen on my MacBook Pro.


I know my way in the system, I'm pretty technical, so I decided to not give up, after a few hours playing around with recovery boot, terminal sessions and log file reading, it appeared that a lot of files were missing, especially system files.


As an example : most content in /usr/share/shadbox, but also ll /System/Library/CoreServices/logind and other files.


After copying these files either from a very old Time Machine backup from end January or from another computer, I finally manage to boot the system.


Lots of applications ar not usable because of missing contents (AppStore, Disk Utility, etc, etc)...


This is totally unacceptable, I work in the computer storage industry, our customers would burn us down to the ground if they could not rely on their storage.


What's worse ? Looks like there is no way to check a backup. Apple provides a "Verify Backup" option in the Time Machine menu, but it is only valid for network backup, not local disks.


Thing is, I was happily looking at my backups every hours, running without errors, througout many many days, only to realize when I need it that it is corrupted.


What do people do when they need reliable backup, except for paying big buck to company who actually care ?

MacBook Pro with Retina display, OS X Mavericks (10.9.3)

Posted on Jun 5, 2014 6:44 AM

Reply
33 replies

Jun 5, 2014 7:17 AM in response to a brody

That's so wrong! I installed beta software, yes, now say my hard drive crashed, I would have got the exact same issue : files are missing from the backup, you can't blame the beta, really.


You are basically telling me : oh, yes, well, if you need a reliable backup, make a clone... Well, that's my point, Time Machine should provide reliable backups at all times, unless an unexpected event corrupts the drive, and in that case, I want a way to check.


See, I understand file system breaks, it happens, so I would like that Apple checks the backup on regular intervals or let me do it myself, I would accept that

Jun 5, 2014 11:23 AM in response to Yann Bizeul

As you have, unfortunately, found out, Apple's Time Machine IS NOT a very good backup software or solution for comprehensive backups.


I have totally given up using Time Machine as a backup solution as on three separate occasions when I needed to restore a full backup of my system, it completely failed me all three occasions and attempts.

Fourtunately, I always create CD/DVD archives of my data every so often so I am never without my long term saved data and my recent data, at the most is a month to two months old.

And I was still using data clones, too!


Completely forget and ditch Time Machine. Period.


Get yourself multiple, at least, two (three is better) large capacity, good quality, fast transfer rate, external hard drives and use a data cloning app such as CarbonCopyCloner or Duper to create complete and exact, bootable copies of your Mac's internal hard drive on all of the drives and use one of the external drives for additonal data storage.

This gives you plenty of redundancy in case a backup clone fails or a hard drive fails.

FYI, I have been using data cloning for 12 plus years and I have never had a cloned backup fail on me or have had the data on the clone ever get corrupted.

This is, IMO, the best and only method for a reliable backup plan.

You always have a backup that has both your important data and a bootable system on it in case something with the system on your Mac's internal drive goes corrupt OR you experience an internal hard drive failure, you always have a way to boot your Mac.

Jun 5, 2014 6:49 AM in response to Yann Bizeul

Are you sure that both disks are working properly? I've been running Time Machine since 2007, and used it for restoring entire disks, migrating across computers, as well as restoting individual files, and never seen any of the problems you encounter.


Are you saying that the files are missing from the TM disk, or just from the restored copy?


Why were you doing a complete restore? Was there some problem you were trying to fix?

Jun 5, 2014 6:59 AM in response to benwiggy

I don't know if both disks are working properly, and I would almost say that's not the point.


Let me explain : Time Machine backups were running without warning, to me, it means everything is fine. There should be some kind of regular verification, and a way to manually check that a given backup is valid.


I ran a disk utility Verify on the TM drive, it finished without issue.


Yes, the files were missing from the TimeMachine disk, for example, /usr/share/shadbox was complete if I looked at a backup from end january, but most files were missing looking at any after that. Same thing for /System/Library/CoreServices/logind


I did a complete restore because I installed a beta release of the OS, I'm a developer, but realizing that one key product I need was not working (VMware Fusion), I decided to roll back. Following that bad experience, I searched for a way to verify backup and was astonished to find out that there is no such thing, Apple provides a flawed software with no mean to very integrity of the backups, that's just very, very bad.


To be completely honest, I should mention that while installing beta software, a few file system inconsistencies were detected and fixed by the installer, maybe that is the cause, but in no condition should you have a system that works perfectly in one hand, and a corrupted backup on the other hand, especially if the used backup disk is healthy.

Jun 5, 2014 7:06 AM in response to Yann Bizeul

If you installed beta software, all bets are off. I would much better trust a clone than Time Machine, since at least a clone you get out exactly what you put in.


Carbon Copy Cloner and Superduper both are far better. Granted, archiving is not as practical with cloning, but even with Time Machine, unless your destination is twice as big as your original, even its archiving can be tempramental at best. Using Time Machine, I would get off any archives you don't want on the original before making a second backup with it after deleting it from the original.

Jun 5, 2014 7:13 AM in response to Yann Bizeul

Yann Bizeul wrote:


What do people do when they need reliable backup, ...?

Use two or more different and independent backup methods, devices, and/or storage locations. Every method has some non-zero failure rate, as I'm sure you know. Even a 99.9999% reliable method fails about one time in a million; there are many million Mac users, so some are likely to see failures. How many 9s can you afford?

Jun 5, 2014 7:23 AM in response to Yann Bizeul

You can check your backup at regular intervals with either cloning or Time Machine.

With cloning, you can boot the backup, and if it works, it is a good sign the backup is mostly good.


With Time Machine, you can go into the individual folder, if you turn off the Time Machine backups in the Apple menu -> System preference, to ensure the backup is still there.


As for betas, if you are talking a beta operating system, we can't discuss that here. There is a non-disclosure agreement on that, and terms of use forbid discussing it here. You have a place to discuss it if you were authorized to join the beta program.


But as far as I know, any beta software can introduce many inconsistencies, and you should expect them.

Jun 5, 2014 8:22 AM in response to a brody

So, Time Machine breaks, silently, it happens... This is bad enough... And the only way I have to make sure a backu is usable is to go into the TM hard drive and manually check my files...


This is awesome, thanks Apple!


So, I'm a developer, I guess I can write my own weekly script to compare files and dates and report any missing files from the backup that would have not been created recently...

Jun 5, 2014 8:55 AM in response to Linc Davis

I had a time machine Backup (Mavericks)

I unplugged my TM disk

I installed "you-know-who" (breaking NDA would actually be talking about features or specifics of you-know-who, the fact there is such a beta is actually public and not NDA)

I wanted to revert

I plugged the disk back and boot off-it to restore my backup.


So, to clarify, and since it looks like it became a sensitive matter in that topic : I'm not breaking any NDA.

Jun 5, 2014 10:25 AM in response to Csound1

The only way to verify a backup, is to compare byte-for-byte each file in the live file system with the one backed up. That's the only way.


Restoring a backup is good enough to see if you can boot your system off your backup, doesn't even mean the backup is current or if it contains all your files.


Plus, to do that, you need another drive with enough space to hold the restoration... really ?


So, back to the basic : verifying a backups consists of checking every single file with the backup... pretty intense right? Maybe I'm not asking that much. But maybe an option in Time Machine or Disk Utility that would do a "Basic consistency check" (say, check files are here and dates matches) or "Deep consistency check" (heavy, painful, and lenghty file comparison), that, is what I consider reliable solution.


From now on, I'm back in the 90's having to manually manage my backup because Apple sold me a solution that, not only is not reliable, but is not auditable by itself (meaning I have to check it myself).


I would actually do better than that and continue using Time Machine, but not without running a monthly file comparison. I wish I had enough time to make a software and sell it to people tha care about their backups!

Jun 5, 2014 11:28 AM in response to MichelPM

I will reward your answer since this is the one that makes more sense, and unfortunately, I don't think there is much more to say on that matter, that's a shame.

It is 2014, I work for a storage vendor that provides reliable, block-level, deduplicated and efficient backup of your your storage for many years, but a multi billion company like Apple still relies on a ancient file system, archaic backups, not even better than file incremental backups, just easier to browse (directory level hard links... really? I mean, it is 2014... time to move on).


I still love Apple, I really do, I'm just smacking myself for trusting them for more than they can do, fooled by the marketing slides :-)

Jun 5, 2014 11:40 AM in response to Yann Bizeul

In defense of Apple, I believe Apple's Time Machine and Time Capsule combination was designed to be a very simple, straightforward app and method of backup, aimed toward newbie or novice Apple users who do not know know much about creating data backups, to give these users an easy to use and understand data backup system.

Unfortunately, this system of data backup I feel is not very good as there have been plenty of users, such as yourself, that always post here about Time Machine issues and failed backups and fail data restores.

TIme Machine needs a few other tools in this software to verify that, in fact, the data and the restore are complelely viable and is free from data corruption or deletion.

Currently, Time Machine is a fail for my backup needs.

Jun 5, 2014 11:57 AM in response to MichelPM

Well, I was naïvely thinking like a basic user : Apple sells me that solution to backup my data, as long as it is running and that little menu says "Last backup today at 2pm", I'm safe.


Only power users like me (now) would doubt the ability of the backup to be restored, that especially what makes it a system *not* aimed at newbies.


Thanks for your comment Michel

Do not trust your Time Machine backups

Welcome to Apple Support Community
A forum where Apple customers help each other with their products. Get started with your Apple Account.