Custom Drummer patterns in Logic Pro X?

No, Drummer generates patterns algorithmically.

Hi

It is possible to get Drummer to follow another track for kick and snare, which can have some influence over what is played.

You can always program the drums the 'old skool' way, possibly converting the drummer output to MIDI first.

CCT

No, that is the point the _don't_ have a source. The drummer listens to other tracks and decides based on these track how to play. It's not patterns, but behaviors that differenciates the different drummers.

My theory is that the drummer works off MIDI loops triggered by real drummers, much the way other libraries (I have Addictive and Superior) are made. But with a much easier to use loop browser. There could be some algos that 'cross-fade' the MIDI patterns or borrow aspects from one similar pattern to the next, inserting fills, etc. The timing variations (push/pull/swing/or follow) could be applied to the MIDI already contained in the loop, or to just the kick/snare, with quantization parameters.

So instead of this:

You have a nice XY pad with some overall numbered options next to it.

The mystery behind Logic’s Drummer is much more simple, it is based on a Drum Pattern Generator (not loops):

• The Drummer Track contains a Drum Pattern Generator
• The Drummer Regions contains the instructions for the Drum Pattern Generator
• The Drummer Editor lets you edit the Parameters (Performance Controls) for the Drum Pattern Generator
• You can save a Drummer Region (the instruction) as a Drummer preset to your disk (dpst)
• You can apply the Drummer Preset to your Drummer Region in the Drummer Editor (load different instructions)
• The Drum Pattern Generator creates the actual MIDI Notes (for kick, snare, HH, etc.) and sends it to the Software Instrument Plugin on that Channel Strip, Drum Kit Designer.
• The Drum Kit Designer is a Sample Player, kind of the EXS24 on steroids with a different interface.
• The Drum Kit Designer contains all the audio samples of those (professionally recorded) sample Drum Kits.
• When loading a Producer Kit, then the Drum Kit Designer uses its multi-output feature to route the individual Drum Kit Pieces (plus overhead, room mice, etc) to separate Channel Strips (organized as a Summing Stack).

Here is a screenshot of the Drummer Preset file. It is a standard XML file with all the Parameter values for the Drum Pattern Generator

That’s it, that’s the mystery behind it. The result is so amazing that Apple sells the whole feature that some actual Drummers (with names) perform those grooves. This is easier to actually explain what is going pn behind the scene.

Now, once you wrap your head around it, you can modify the setup.

• Load a different Software Instrument Plugin onto the Drummer Track. Everything is the same, just the recipient of the MIDI notes (coming from the Drum pattern Generator) is a different Instrument. It just has to match the GM mapping)
• You can drag a Drummer Region onto a MIDI Region. This translates the output what the Drum Pattern Generator would send to the Drum Kit Designer to a standard MIDI Region that you can use on a MIDI Track where you can edit the notes in the Piano Roll Editor and use your prefer end Drummer Plugin.
• You cannot place the MIDI Region back on the Drummer Track, which makes sense once you understand what a Drummer Region is.

I explain all those details in my graphically enhanced Logic book "Logic Pro X - How it Works". Here is a diagram with an overview of the Drummer Ecosystem.

Hope that helps

Edgar Rothermich

http://DingDingMusic.com/Manuals/

'I may receive some form of compensation, financial or otherwise, from my recommendation or link.'

My point was that the patterns were originally created by sampling real drummers on a MIDI kit, same as how other drum plugs have a MIDI library of loops.. When I say loops I mean these repeatable MIDI patterns, not actual audio loops. I think it is just a simple, slick, easy to use MIDI loop browser. I love it, but I don't think the computer is generating these patterns.

seeren wrote:

t I don't think the computer is generating these patterns.

If the computer (Drum Pattern Generator) is not generating these patterns (based on the user's instructions in the Drummer Region), then who is?

Hi

seeren wrote:

I think it is just a simple, slick, easy to use MIDI loop browser. I love it, but I don't think the computer is generating these patterns.

How would you explain that the Drummer is "aware" of which bar it is in and such, for example, if you shorten an eight bar region at the front, the drum part completely recalculates to include a pickup fill etc., or they way it deals with gaps at the end of a section, or indeed, time signature changes, or "kick and Snare "following" another track.

Hardly a simple MIDI loop?

CCT

Simple, as in the interface. I don't doubt that there is some complex algos going on in order to do what it does, and adapt the way it does.

If the computer (Drum Pattern Generator) is not generating these patterns (based on the user's instructions in the Drummer Region), then who is?

Nobody "is" - somebody "has" (in the past) - and the program is 'calling' them from its database.

CCTM wrote:

How would you explain that the Drummer is "aware" of which bar it is in and such, for example, if you shorten an eight bar region at the front, the drum part completely recalculates to include a pickup fill etc., or they way it deals with gaps at the end of a section, or indeed, time signature changes, or "kick and Snare "following" another track.

Knowing what bar, and if a cut is made then it calls up (fill 798A) isn't too much of a stretch to imagine. Following another track: analyze transients, create and apply groove template to pattern (394G, sub K194).

There is no need to guess how the Drummer works, what it is using, Loops or some crazy techniques. Just look what's on your drive and you will KNOW (instead of GUESS) what the secret ingredients are.

Here is the secret location:

/Library/Application Support/Logic/

Drummer

You will find the Drummer folder. I contains a folder for each of the 18 Drummers with the various Drummer Presets. These are the default reset files for the Drum Pattern Generator. The Presets you save yourself are stored in the users directory

Sample Instrument

This is the folder that contains all the EXS Dample Instrument files (.exs). Look inside the "03 Drums & Percussion" and then "04 Drum Kit Designer" folder. Now you (hopefully) realize that the Drum Kit Designer Plugin is actually an EXS24 Pluign (new and improved, customized for Drums).

EXS Factory Samples

This is the folder where all the Samples are stored for the EXS Instrument. Inside is the "Drum Kit Designer Consolidated" folder. That contains all the samples for the Drum Kit Designer. Little tidbit. The samples are not stored as individual aiff files. They are CAF files (which is a versatile container file). For example, all the Snares are stored in one long audio file. The EXS just accesses a specific snare sound based on its timestamp in that audio file.

These are all the ingredients of your Drummer Ecosystem you need to pull off the Drummer feature. The actual Drum Pattern Generator, the engine that puts all those pieces together, is just some code embedded inside the Logic app. All the assets are right there in plain sight. What I don't see, audio loops. Logic Pro X also introduced a new feature, the "Articulation ID" (also used in the Smart Stings) that is used in the EXS Sampler as some kind of Key Switching feature. Drag a Drummer Region over a MIDI Track and view its content in the Event List (with Articulation ID visible).

That's all the information I could find out so far that points to a Drum Pattern Generator (btw, check teh Smart Drums in the GarageBand for iPad app, another hint). However, if there is proof (besides guessing) for any other techniques, I'd like to know.

Hi

seeren wrote:

Simple, as in the interface. I don't doubt that there is some complex algos going on in order to do what it does, and adapt the way it does.

Knowing what bar, and if a cut is made then it calls up (fill 798A) isn't too much of a stretch to imagine. Following another track: analyze transients, create and apply groove template to pattern (394G, sub K194).

I think we are debating the same thing?

How does it work out what to do & when... algorithmic?

CCT

I guess what I'm saying is that the AI is an engine (how it works? dunno) that selects and modifies an existing library of MIDI patterns/gooves/fills, etc. Rather than the AI creating those patterns from scratch. This makes sense to me because the different drummers have distinct styles of playing, which would require considerable development and modification of the AI code for each drummer. Whereas if you have one 'engine' that works, all you have to do is sub-out the MIDI loop creation to a private studio/development team, plug in their content, and you can have 12 or 15 distinctly different drummers with very little modification to the code.

It could very well be they have developed a dozen different rhythmic versions of Cleverbot, too. As Edgar said, it's not important how they did it, just that it works. But it is kind of fun to speculate.