Stuck at Apple logo, won't boot from internal HD

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Level 1

6 points

Stuck at Apple logo, won't boot from internal HD

My PowerBook G4 (Ti, 867MHz) just decided it didn't want to boot today...

The PowerBook has been asleep and not used for a few weeks. I woke it up last week for a few minutes to try and print out a document. It restarted just fine after installing the printer driver. Then it went back asleep until today.

I decided I had better shut it down as it has been sleeping a lot. It's shut down for about 5 minutes when I boot it back up to find it stuck at the Apple logo with the (spinning) spinner.

What I tried to do to solve the problem:

1. Booted into Terminal mode (command-s) and typed exit so I could see the boot log. It appears to attempt to boot yet repeatedly prints:

> localhost /System/Library/CoreServices/loginwindow.app/Contents/MacOS/loginwindow[92]: Login Window Application Started -- Threaded auth

> localhost loginwindow[92]: _RegisterApplication(), FAILED TO establish the default connection to the WindowServer, _CGSDefaultConnection() is NULL.

> localhost loginwindow[92]: [/SourceCache/loginwindow/loginwindow-1234.4/Login.m:566]: CGSCopyCurrentSessionDictionary returned NULL

> localhost loginwindow[92]: ERROR | -[Login1 resetDevicePermissions] | CGSCopySessionList returned NULL

> localhost ReportCrash[97]: Saved crashreport to /Library/Logs/CrashReporter/loginwindow_2014-06-23-HHMMSS_localhost.crash using uid: 0 gid: 0 euid: 0 egid: 0

2. Booted into Terminal again, and mounted the volume. I was able to do ls to list the file contents - so I CAN get to my files. It's not a disk issue. Then I ran fsck -fy. It reported the disk as OK.

3. Rebooted and reset PRAM. No change

4. Reset NVRAM. No change.

5. Popped in the Leopard install disc and restarted. Booted into Leopard disc.

6. Tried to repair permissions from Leopard disc - it just hung and I had to cancel the process.

7. Verified disk from Leopard disc. Reported as OK.

8. Clicked the next button on the install screen. Tried to install. "You don't have enough space"... The skimpy 40GB HD is so packed with stuff that it can't install. And my external HD won't connect to it, it never shows up. Not like I can move off anything anyway as it won't boot...

I CANNOT format the HD. I have stuff on there I can't lose. Does the Terminal recognize and mount USB devices so I can copy from the Terminal? If not I guess I could delete some apps and Xcode and stuff, maybe the System folder...

Any solutions here? Never had this happen before...

Posted on Jun 23, 2014 6:47 PM

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Answer 1

The Mac Bot Author

Level 1

6 points

Jun 23, 2014 8:49 PM in response to The Mac Bot

We've now passed the Point of No Return!

Monkeyed around some more, removed a few critical folders to free up space, and now I have a folder with a ? and the Finder face.

When trying to install...Install Failed! I'll try again. Now I pretty much have to reinstall. 😠

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Answer 2

Drew Reece

Level 6

10,660 points

Jun 23, 2014 9:11 PM in response to The Mac Bot

Do you have any other Macs around?

Do you have a Firewire lead & Firewire ports on each Mac? You could try 'Target disk mode'…

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1661

Do you have the system disks (or any other disk to boot it)? If you can boot you may be able to copy data off onto another disk, assuming it is readable or if it is repairable.

It's entirely possible the hardware has reached a point of failure (this Mac getting very old now). If the data is critical you may still be able to read it if you can take the HD out & fit it into a suitable case. Search for the 'Apple user serviceable parts guide' it could indicate what type of connector the disk has so you can get an appropriate case (I think the old PATA connector cases are getting rare nowadays).

NOTE Mactracker.ca says it is "Ultra ATA/66 (ATA-5)"

Another option is file recovery software, assuming you can get the disk out or use target disk mode. You will need something that reads the old Apple Partition Map I expect? Do you have any repair/ recovery tools for this generation ?

I'm afraid the old installers would usually overwrite the OS, so your data may be gone if you do a reinstall. Do you know what OS is on it?

I'd plug in another disk & attempt to install onto that - if you can get to a working OS you may be able to see files on the internal disk. It's possible that your meddling only made it unbootable, the data may be ok.

Good luck

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Answer 3

The Mac Bot Author

Level 1

6 points

Jun 23, 2014 9:33 PM in response to Drew Reece

Quite sorry about that! Forgot to tell you the OS. That comes from a guy who's quite experienced at computers...

It's 10.5.8 Leopard.

Doubt we have a hardware failure here. Things can boot up fine from other sources.

And good call on the SATA adapter, I actually have one 🙂

It's trying to reinstall again, now. Strangely it let me choose "Upgrade & Install" even though the previous system was 10.5.8. So I went with that option.

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Answer 4

The Mac Bot Author

Level 1

6 points

Jun 23, 2014 10:01 PM in response to The Mac Bot

Just got done reinstalling Leopard. No error codes, just restarted when done.

However, it didn't boot to the login window. It only booted to a blue screen with just the cursor visible.

I've seen this glitch before. The only account is corrupted and can't be displayed in the loginwindow, so that causes a bug in the system and the login window doesn't display.

My solution is to re-run the Setup Assistant by Terminal editing and removing /var/db.AppleSetupDone.

When I rebooted, I got a grey screen. Just a grey screen and a lone cursor. Nothing happened from there, no Setup Assistant, no Login Window...

Verbose mode (command-v) dumps me out at the same grey screen.

What to do now?

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Answer 5

Drew Reece

Level 6

10,660 points

Jun 23, 2014 10:22 PM in response to The Mac Bot

Inspect the disk from another source, has it been repaired in disk utility? Do permissions FWIW.

zap the PRAM?

Reset the NVRAM (or is it open firmware?).

About NVRAM and PRAM

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Answer 6

The Mac Bot Author

Level 1

6 points

Jun 24, 2014 7:08 AM in response to The Mac Bot

Repaired disk...The volume Macintosh HD appears to be OK.

Tried NVRAM/PRAM before reinstall. No change.

Trying to repair permissions now, it seems to be stuck...sitting at about halfway for quite a long time. I'll wait for it.

Any other solutions? Reinstalling (upgrade/reinstall) gets me to the grey screen as I described.

Maybe I'll try an Archive/Reinstall...

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Answer 7

The Mac Bot Author

Level 1

6 points

Jun 24, 2014 8:21 AM in response to The Mac Bot

Permissions repaired. Nothing.

Now trying to copy stuff off using the Terminal while started up from the Leopard install disc.

Might have to Erase/Install...

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Answer 8

Drew Reece

Level 6

10,660 points

Jun 24, 2014 8:24 AM in response to The Mac Bot

What are you seeing when running from the other OS? Is the disk mounting and readable?

How stable is the Mac when running from this external OS?

Copy all the data off the disk if you can. Once the data is on another disk I would fully erase the drive using the extra option to write zeros to disk. If that fails you know the disk (or other related hardware) is not able to read/write to that disk.

Writing zeros to the disk will allow the disk controller to isolate any bad blocks, it's worth checking the disk status with tools that report SMART failures. I think these were all 3rd party tools in the 10.5.8 days. From that point you can run the Mac from an external disk to see if it can still boot & run OK.

Initially you seemed convinced you needed the data that is on the disk - now you are contemplating an archive/ reinstall after trying a reinstall. These are mutually exclusive if your disk is failing - you simply make it harder to get any real data of the disk.

All you need is the disk in a state where you can try copying files off. Has that happened yet?

What is your actual aim here?

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Answer 9

Jun 24, 2014 1:00 PM in response to The Mac Bot

If you have no recourse but to erase and install, I might recommend you zero out the disk. This will add some assurance that the drive is able to go through every sector.

Be absolutely sure that you are using the discs made for the computer or the retail version because even way back in the day, a color classic with the wrong OS will install but then show errors at the desktop. Not exactly the best example but I think you know what I mean. Judging from the beefy initial post, I am confident you are a very learned user and will resolve the issue.

Please back up!

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Answer 10

Jun 24, 2014 1:12 PM in response to Drew Reece

Hi Drew, sorry that I didn't read your entire reply. I basically repeated a lot of what you said. In the end, I hope reinforcing the idea of a zero out will help isolate the issue a little further.

I am left wondering if it's the ribbon cable connecting between the MLB and the HD? Sometimes they are damaged but show no physical signs of damage. It might be worth purchasing a known good ribbon cable incase. I will leave that up to The Mac Bot.

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Answer 11

The Mac Bot Author

Level 1

6 points

Jun 24, 2014 1:46 PM in response to The Mac Bot

I can get to the Terminal using Command-S and the Leopard install disc. The internal HD mounts either way.

The Leopard install disc I'm using is a full retail disc, not one shipped with a computer. I do have media from a 2008 iMac that I could use as well if that would help.

When I boot up into the Leopard disc and use the Terminal there, the USB flash drive I'm using mounts and I can copy stuff over.

I will copy my stuff over and try another install, this time using Archive/Install instead of Upgrade. That fails? Time to Erase/Install.

My goal originally was to get it booting properly without having to erase the drive. I might have to end up doing that.

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Answer 12

Jun 24, 2014 1:52 PM in response to The Mac Bot

Sounds like a good plan! A&I otherwise E&I

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Answer 13

The Mac Bot Author

Level 1

6 points

Jun 25, 2014 9:51 PM in response to The Mac Bot

Every time I try to archive & install:

Install Failed!

The installer encountered an unknown error that failed the install.

Happens at the very last second and happens every time.

Strange, because the "upgrade" and install seemed to work fine, but it restarted and booted to a grey screen.

From the installer log:

OSInstaller[153]: An exception was thrown from the install queue while running IFPostArchiveInstallElement. NSFileHandleOperationException. *** -[NSConcreteFileHandle writeData:]: No space left on device.

OSInstaller[153]: Install Failed: The Installer encountered an unknown error that failed the install. Contact the software manufacturer for assistance.

Not enough space?! The system said I would have more than 8 whole gigs left after I installed the software. That must be enough. Otherwise, wouldn't it say that I didn't have enough space instead of failing the install?

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Answer 14

The Mac Bot Author

Level 1

6 points

Jun 25, 2014 9:58 PM in response to The Mac Bot

Evidently my available edit time had timed out. Have to repost this. More stuff from the log.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----------

Every time I try to archive & install:

Install Failed!

The installer encountered an unknown error that failed the install.

Happens at the very last second and happens every time.

Strange, because the "upgrade" and install seemed to work fine, but it restarted and booted to a grey screen.

From the installer log:

OSInstaller[153]: Importing users and setting to new system.

OSInstaller[153]: An exception was thrown from the install queue while running IFPostArchiveInstallElement. NSFileHandleOperationException. *** -[NSConcreteFileHandle writeData:]: No space left on device.

OSInstaller[153]: Deleting broken system

OSInstaller[153]: Moving previous system back

OSInstaller[153]: Blessing recovered system

OSInstaller[153]: bless returned 0

OSInstaller[153]: Install Failed: The Installer encountered an unknown error that failed the install. Contact the software manufacturer for assistance.

Seems like it failed trying to import users and settings...not enough space? The system said I would have more than 8 whole gigs left after I installed the software. That must be enough. Otherwise, wouldn't it say that I didn't have enough space instead of failing the install?

Would it be a good or utterly terrible idea to force restart at that last minute - before the OS tries to restore the data? That has a high chance of corrupting the previous files (which I DO have backed up). But the OS should be reinstalled and functioning at that point

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Answer 15

The Mac Bot Author

Level 1

6 points

Jun 25, 2014 10:09 PM in response to The Mac Bot

So I had a crazy idea...

Booted into the terminal (command-s) and manually created a .AppleSetupDone file in the right place to skip the setup assistant.

With that done...

It dumps me out at a blue screen with nothing but the pointer. After about 30 seconds the terminal very briefly comes up and then goes away. It just keeps doing this.

Corrupted account?

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