Q: IOS 7.1.2 is buggy, don't update

PoochJD wrote:

 

HI,

 

 

Yes, but that's not the point. You can ALWAYS argue that 99.9% of customers who are happy don't say they are happy, and that you only ever hear from the 0.1% who aren't happy. The point is that ANY software updates should be thoroughly tested by Apple, BEFORE unleashing them on the world.

You missed the part where the release WAS TESTED. By tens of thousands of seeded users and developers, for at least 3 months. Not to mention an unknown number of people who installed the beta who were NOT authorized testers. It was not released until all of the problems reported by those testers were resolved. So should Apple have tested it for 6 months? A year? 2 years? What is YOUR view of how long it should have been tested and by how many users AFTER all of the known problems were reported and resolved?

Laurence,

Clearly the iOS updates aren't being tested for LONG ENOUGH then, are they?! Moreso, if each and every update keeps causing thousands, maybe tens of thousands of people, problems with their previously-working iPhones!

iOS updates need to be thoroughly tested. If that means testing them for 6 months, 9 months, or even longer, then so be it. I'd rather Apple spent more time on making sure each update is solid and as fully functioning as is humanly possible, then simply regurgitate an update every couple of months, that causes problems on top of problems. Why have 7.1, 7.1.1, and 7.1.2 when Apple should have made 7.1 more stable in the first place?!

Ultimately, iPhone users are sick to death of updating their iPhones, finding the update causes problems or is ghastly to use, and then they can't then revert back to their previously fully-working version. Maybe Apple can do that? Allow people to apply an update, and if they don't like it (or it doesn't work), their Apple devices can be reverted back to their previous fully-operational state. How hard can that be to include?

It would solve most people's problems, and be a good PR move for Apple as well. But I also suspect that - like most Tech industry companies - they can't see past their own blinkered view, and are under the illusion that the future is perfect, and we have to live in a world of needing constant updates, improvements, and reimaginings of things. Tech people just can't accept the fact that some of us just want something that works, without all the bells-and-whistles accoutrements that they keep including, that suit them, but don't suit 50, 60 or even 70% of the end-users!

But I know I'm talking to a brick wall here. Apple will keep doing whatever Apple thinks is best, irrespective of what Apple users care about. It won't be long before we get the new, spangly iOS8, and a whole new set of update problems will start unfolding, and a whole load of "iOS8 is buggy, don't update" threads start appearing too.

Pooch

Buy an Android phone. Oh hang on, there last update was buggy too according to thousands. Windows phone maybe? Still have seen no issues with any iPods or iPhones I have updated for many, many people.

Good Luck

Pete

How about simply choosing not to update, which is your choice?  Apple doesn't require you to update your iOS.  No one requires you to update your iOS.  It's totally voluntary. 

Yes, you're having some problems.  But the vast majority of iOS 7 users are not having any issues whatsoever.  You're in the minority.

PoochJD wrote:

 

Laurence,

 

Clearly the iOS updates aren't being tested for LONG ENOUGH then, are they?! Moreso, if each and every update keeps causing thousands, maybe tens of thousands of people, problems with their previously-working iPhones!

 

iOS updates need to be thoroughly tested. If that means testing them for 6 months, 9 months, or even longer, then so be it.

I've been writing and testing software for almost 50 years. How long have you been testing software? It is impossible to test for everything. Consider, there are 1,200,000 apps available for iPhones. There are 500 million iPhones. Each iPhone will have a different combination of apps and different usage patterns, all of which can affect how the phone will react to a new release. The only way to test this completely thoroughly is to have an image of each of those 500 million phones. As a start, think of the privacy issues of giving Apple a complete image of what's on your phone. But now suppose you could. You'd have to test those 500 million different images long enough to determine if it was stable. At least a day, more likely a week. But I'll go with a day. So 500 million FTE* days of testing. How many testers would be needed? Suppose we say that Apple hires 1,000 contractors to do the testing. So each tester would have to work 500,000 days. That comes out to 1,400 years if they work 7 day weeks. I doubt that you would want to wait that long. Perhaps Apple could find 10,000 testers. That would reduce it to a mere 140 years. And it still wouldn't guarantee that no one would have a problem after the update, because people change their phone's configuration all the time.

And it would be fruitless, because most of the problems that have been listed, at least in this thread, have nothing to do with the update. And you will notice that almost all of them are different problems. Which means that either Apple missed dozens of bugs, or that Apple didn't miss any, but something in the usage pattern of the phone is what caused the problems after the update. Or some combination of the above. You will also note that some people had problems BEFORE the update, but they still blame the update for the problems they still have AFTER the update. Whatever happened to logical thinking?

If you don't want any problems with your phone don't get ANY smartphone. It's a mistake to think of it as a phone; it's a very powerful pocket computer that can also make phone calls, and has all of the quirks of any powerful computer. So get the most basic phone you can find. Ideally a landline with a rotary dial; they are 100% reliable, never get updates, and last for years. I have one that is 60 years old and it still works.

I have a friend who is an Android developer. Every release of Android breaks most apps, which requires the app developers to be constantly scrambling to keep up. (I don't mean this as an attack on Android, which is an excellent platform. But it is the nature of software and operating system development.) And everyone knows how stable and bug free Windows is.

===================

*FTE = Full Time Equivalent. What we used to call "man-days" in the bad old days.

Don't know what bit me, but for once I did NOT wait to see user experiences with an OS update, and now I'm having WiFi issues with my 4S too. Ironically, a 64Gb model I got to replace a 32Gb 4S under 6.1.1 that started having WiFi drop-outs (that haven't come back since I replaced it :-/ )

The first few days under 7.1.2 were fine, and problems started abroad, at a hotel with flaky WiFi and while using a Belkin powerback, so I didn't blame the OS update at once. The last couple of days I've had to do more resets than ever before (= never had to), as well as regular reboots. Even if it rebooted considering WiFi to be available, the phone would often hang when I tried to access the Settings/WiFi page (or even call up the Control Centre). I'm now waiting for a restore-after-DFU to complete. The good news is that the OS restore went fast, much faster than the first upgrade to 7.1.2 (which hung) - and WiFi appears to be connected.

If this doesn't solve my issues, I'll try a downgrade to 7.1.1 . Instructions are easy enough to find on the web - not knowing exactly how acceptable it is to discuss this I'll just ask if anyone tried it?

To answer my own question: it's still possible to downgrade to 7.1.1 . I had 2 more slight but suspicious WiFi drops this morning and given how my previous issues started only after a couple of days I preferred to go back to a tested OS while still possible.

Sadly the phone just rebooted during the restore, and now tells me WiFi isn't available (though it does show the MAC address)

Hi,

Well, it would seem some of you are upset at my comments! A shame, but expected.

Petermac87 - Just because other products have problems, doesn't make Apple's iOS problems any less troublesome, infuriating or acceptable. By your analogy, we should all be grateful that anything works at all. Well, sorry, but I'm someone who expects a certain standard from Apple, for the premium price I pay for their goods! If I'd paid £50 for their iPhone 4S, then yes, maybe it'd be wrong of me to expect that the phone be any good. When you've paid over £400 for it, you expect it to be able to be updated, without constantly "bricking" the thing, through no fault of the customers!

Tjbusmc1973 - Again, you are right in that no one forces you to update, until - that is - Apple stops "signing" off older IPSW versions of the iOS, just as they have done with iOS's 4, 5 and now 6. And no one forces you to update, until - that is - you find various apps stop working, because "they no longer support older iOS systems", e.g. most major banking apps, for example. And no one forces you to update, until - that is - you fail to do an update, something goes wrong with the phone, you take it into an Apple Store, and their "Geniuses" tell you that the problem is your fault for not keeping the iPhone up-to-date. Oh, and you might want to check the long list of iTunes, iPhone and iOS terms-and-conditions, because one of the things you all agree too, is to promise to keep your Apple device up-to-date with any updates that Apple sends out, in order to keep your device secure!

So yes, no one forces you to update, until they do exactly that! No, that's no force at all. That's not coercion! No, that's just the gentle arm of Apple's persuasion, from a completely well-meaning, wholly ethical company with your best interests at heart, isn't i!?! 

Laurence, to be frank with you, the fact you've been testing and writing software for close to 50 years, is not really pertinent to the issue. And, yes, you are right in assuming that I've not tested/written/created/coded any software - I haven't. Then again, I never said that I had, so more fool you!

The fact that you try to justify a problematic software update, whether it be from Apple, from Google, or from Microsoft or any other IT company for that matter, is laughable! This is the kind of blinkered mentality I'd expect from Tech Industry people who seem to think that we, the "little" people, should be eternally grateful for every single thing you do. No! I have no problem with anyone who updates technology in a way that makes things better for society or the end-user. I have no problem with anyone who updates something, even if the update is irrelevant to me personally, or I don't happen to need or want the update, for whatever reasons.

What I do have a problem with, is people like you, who think that we owe you something! That we have to be thankful to you, for causing problems we didn't create in the first place! For causing us end-users a large amount of grief, hassle and stress, because you can't be bothered to put in some leg-work, and actually make sure that software updates are as solid, as thoroughly-tested and as good as they should be.

Do I expect Apple to test the update on 500 million separate iPhones? No, of course not.

Do I expect Apple to test the update more thoroughly than it seems they are currently doing? Yes, absolutely!

If every update is constantly causing problems for a substantial portion of the end-users, whether that portion be 10 per-cent, 5, per-cent, 1 per-cent, or 0.1 per-cent, and that portion of end-users is in the hundreds of thousands or millions, then yes, I expect better testing of the update, and - more importantly - better support for the people behind the update, who insist we apply THEIR updates, for OUR benefit!

Your argument that "most of the problems that have been listed, at least in this thread, have nothing to do with the update", is complete and utter batdung! It's a pathetic and frivolous argument trotted out by people in IT, to excuse shoddy, lazy and/or inept work! Imagine if GM Motors had manufactured a car, put it on sale, and then a part of that car consistently caused drivers to die or have horrific injuries, through no fault of the drivers themselves. How would you apportion blame?! Would you say it was:

If you can't or don't want to see that, then you are everything that is wrong with Apple, since Steve Jobs passed away! Another in a long line of people who just want customers money, and then you toss them aside when things go wrong, and tell users it's their fault when things go wrong!

PoochJD wrote:

 

Do I expect Apple to test the update more thoroughly than it seems they are currently doing? Yes, absolutely!

Actually, they enlist the help of independent developers who are supposed to give feedback on any issues they encounter. Of course we don't know how well they listen (cf. the whole thing with the wallpapers), and the thing with developers is that they are likely to have the latest hardware so backwards compatibility problems (or ones related to component age, if that's possible) probably have a much bigger chance to go undetected until some "poor" user(s) stumble upon it.

PoochJD wrote:

 

Hi,

 

Well, it would seem some of you are upset at my comments! A shame, but expected.

 

Petermac87 - Just because other products have problems, doesn't make Apple's iOS problems any less troublesome, infuriating or acceptable. By your analogy, we should all be grateful that anything works at all. Well, sorry, but I'm someone who expects a certain standard from Apple, for the premium price I pay for their goods! If I'd paid £50 for their iPhone 4S, then yes, maybe it'd be wrong of me to expect that the phone be any good. When you've paid over £400 for it, you expect it to be able to be updated, without constantly "bricking" the thing, through no fault of the customers!

 

Tjbusmc1973 - Again, you are right in that no one forces you to update, until - that is - Apple stops "signing" off older IPSW versions of the iOS, just as they have done with iOS's 4, 5 and now 6. And no one forces you to update, until - that is - you find various apps stop working, because "they no longer support older iOS systems", e.g. most major banking apps, for example. And no one forces you to update, until - that is - you fail to do an update, something goes wrong with the phone, you take it into an Apple Store, and their "Geniuses" tell you that the problem is your fault for not keeping the iPhone up-to-date. Oh, and you might want to check the long list of iTunes, iPhone and iOS terms-and-conditions, because one of the things you all agree too, is to promise to keep your Apple device up-to-date with any updates that Apple sends out, in order to keep your device secure!

 

So yes, no one forces you to update, until they do exactly that! No, that's no force at all. That's not coercion! No, that's just the gentle arm of Apple's persuasion, from a completely well-meaning, wholly ethical company with your best interests at heart, isn't i!?! 

 

Laurence, to be frank with you, the fact you've been testing and writing software for close to 50 years, is not really pertinent to the issue. And, yes, you are right in assuming that I've not tested/written/created/coded any software - I haven't. Then again, I never said that I had, so more fool you!

 

The fact that you try to justify a problematic software update, whether it be from Apple, from Google, or from Microsoft or any other IT company for that matter, is laughable! This is the kind of blinkered mentality I'd expect from Tech Industry people who seem to think that we, the "little" people, should be eternally grateful for every single thing you do. No! I have no problem with anyone who updates technology in a way that makes things better for society or the end-user. I have no problem with anyone who updates something, even if the update is irrelevant to me personally, or I don't happen to need or want the update, for whatever reasons.

 

What I do have a problem with, is people like you, who think that we owe you something! That we have to be thankful to you, for causing problems we didn't create in the first place! For causing us end-users a large amount of grief, hassle and stress, because you can't be bothered to put in some leg-work, and actually make sure that software updates are as solid, as thoroughly-tested and as good as they should be.

 

Do I expect Apple to test the update on 500 million separate iPhones? No, of course not.

 

Do I expect Apple to test the update more thoroughly than it seems they are currently doing? Yes, absolutely!

 

If every update is constantly causing problems for a substantial portion of the end-users, whether that portion be 10 per-cent, 5, per-cent, 1 per-cent, or 0.1 per-cent, and that portion of end-users is in the hundreds of thousands or millions, then yes, I expect better testing of the update, and - more importantly - better support for the people behind the update, who insist we apply THEIR updates, for OUR benefit!

 

Your argument that "most of the problems that have been listed, at least in this thread, have nothing to do with the update", is complete and utter batdung! It's a pathetic and frivolous argument trotted out by people in IT, to excuse shoddy, lazy and/or inept work! Imagine if GM Motors had manufactured a car, put it on sale, and then a part of that car consistently caused drivers to die or have horrific injuries, through no fault of the drivers themselves. How would you apportion blame?! Would you say it was:

If you can't or don't want to see that, then you are everything that is wrong with Apple, since Steve Jobs passed away! Another in a long line of people who just want customers money, and then you toss them aside when things go wrong, and tell users it's their fault when things go wrong!

Feel better? I disagree.

Pete

PoochJD wrote:

 

It won't change the fact that if people like you did your jobs better in the first place, then people like me wouldn't have to take to public forums decrying what a bunch of lame individuals you guys are!

You do know that no one here in this thread works for Apple, right? We are your fellow users who volunteer our time here to help other people.

I have spent HOURS on the phone with Apple and Comcast since upgrading my 4S to IOS 7.1.2.

Have been unable to reply to or forward emails using apple server. Can only do so with Comcast App.

Informed by both Apple and Comcast that Comcast is no longer supporting the Apple email product and wants everyone to use the Comcast (Xfinity) App for email. They said that Droid and other phone services will begin to have same problems as Comcast refuses to cooperate with upgraded IOS on alternate servers. I fault both Apple for bringing a new IOS product to the public without vetting it with major providers, and Comcast for being uncooperative in providing service to their subscribers on anything but their app.

Hi,

@Petermac - You said: "Feel better? I disagree." The fact that you disagree, and offer up nothing more than those four words, seems that you really don't seem to care whether the updates are or aren't tested. As long as you're okay, then that's all that matters to you, and sod anyone else. Way-to-go you! And well done on cutting-and-pasting my entire response, just to add such an infantile comment to it!

@Meg St._Clair - You said: "You do know that no one here in this thread works for Apple, right?"  No, really?! (I'm being facetious here!)

Yes, I do know that! I'm not an idiot!

It's just that some of the comments in these kinds of threads, from people who applied the latest update and then say "Well, nothing went wrong when I did it, so the problem must be you or your device" kind of gets on peoples nerves, because it implies that it's never the fault of the update, but always the user or their device - when I think most sensible people would accept that that is not always the case, and is merely an excuse used by software engineers to excuse poor work from the update-creators!

The fact that every update has had problems, or rather causes problems for a large portion of Apple users, and that no iOS update has ever gone smoothly almost proves this! And no, I'm not blind to the fact that updates are complex pieces of engineering, before Lawrence or someone else tries to point that little issue out. Rather than making each update try to fix previous problems AND include new/alternate functions, why not just deal with the fixing of problems on its own. Once the bugs have been fixed, and the iOS is now as stable as humanly possible, then start tinkering with it to add all-singing, all-dancing new functionality.

But, no! Apple would rather keep updating and updating and updating, every few weeks with another new update to download, and another set of problems get created for end-users such as myself, and we/I then have to spend hours or days of precious time to fix Apple's screw-ups!

I finally got 7.1.2 and iTunes to work, after spending another 3-and-a-bit hours on things last night. In the end, I had to wipe my iPhone completely, delete my most recent backup (because iTunes kept saying it was corrupt, when I suspect it wasn't), and then set-up my iPhone as a brand new device, and subsequently reinstall all of my aps, music and other data onto it!

I've thus spent almost 10 hours fixing Apple's shoddy work, on my own, and with no (useful) help from Apple. Even their Geniuses were stumped as to what was causing the problems, when I made an appointment to see them at my local Apple store. So, that's ten, mind-numbing hours I can not get back, completely wasted.

I'm not alone in this, and this isn't a unique occurance either! This kind of wasted time, is something many people do every time Apple does an update. And it's getting boring now!

So, Apple, start fixing the updates and making sure that they work as best as humanly possible. If you need to take longer to test them, do so. Just stop letting your end-users be your "guinea pigs"! We're sick of it!

Pooch

In/on my end, I had to do a full reset on my downgraded-to-7.1.1 phone after rebooting it multiple times (each time waiting up to 15min after shutting it off) just to be sure it considered and showed WiFi to be available before starting a restore-from-backup. That last time seems to have worked, but I have kind of lost confidence that it will NOT start acting up again.

One of the BIG advantages Apple/iOS have over Android is the fact that older devices get upgrades (one might even say it's the only real advantage left, now that most all apps exist for both platforms). Of course that becomes a moot argument very quickly if one has to fear to apply each and every upgrade...

I wish I had read what others had posted before updating my iPad to 7.1.2.  Disaster ensued.

I got a screen with a picture of a sync cable indicating I should connect to iTunes.  I’ve lost a lot of my data and I am very unhappy because some of it is absolutely irreplaceable.  I have warned other people I know who may not have upgraded yet.  It has been a painful experience and I’ve learned a valuable lesson, a little late.

I thought I had backed up my iPad a short while ago but I can’t find anything either on the cloud or in iTunes on my computer except for a couple of Garage Band songs. I have never experienced such a horrible problem before in updating any of my Apple products.  This was horrible.