Q: All (only) Apple devices dropping home wifi. What do I do?

Thank you all for the replies.  I am still experiencing the issues on my Apple devices but not so much or so often with my others.  Thru my ISP tech-support, they check surrounding networks for channel uses and changed mine to one that no one else was using. The problem does persist to some degree.

I do not have the "Open Wireless Diagnostics" option in my wifi drop down menu.  Is this a "Developer" option?

I learned some time ago that my ISP is one of a very few who throttle traffic during selected period of time.  This being said, I have noticed, thru Transmission.app, that listening ports are often closed.  I then have to reboot my modem and ensure my iMac IP is in the DMZ slot.

It is VERY annoying and am sure my house guest probably thinks I'm limiting her internet access and my son, I know, thinks the same. My ISP service tech has come and connected his gadgets and said the internet signal does show a 10% db loss (something causes interference but has nothing to do with me, my home network or even my home, for that matter).  Is it possible for the wireless aspect of the modem to have issues while the modem appears fine?  This is a 10 year old model (if not older) of modem.  Could it be a compatibility issue with today's tech?

I do not have the "Open Wireless Diagnostics" option in my wifi drop down menu.  Is this a "Developer" option?

Hold the "Option" key, then click on the WiFi icon on the menu bar.  The "Option" key may also be labeled "Alt".  That will add additional information to the WiFi menu when it drops down, including "Open Wireless Diagnostics" at the bottom of the menu.

Is it possible for the wireless aspect of the modem to have issues while the modem appears fine?  This is a 10 year old model (if not older) of modem

I think you got your money's worth out of this unit.  You might consider an upgrade.

And yes, WiFi devices can fail.  The original Airport base station (even older model than your's) suffered from a failing capacitor.  So anything is possible with 10 year old equipment.

You might use the WiFi unit's model number to Google it and find out its full feature set.  Then compare that against a more current unit.  While I'm sure the new unit will have more features, what you want to look for is if it has better security options (WPA2) at the minimum.  I can already say that it will have 5GHz support which for newer Macs, iPads, and the latest iPhones, will have less interference with other WiFi base stations in the  neighborhood (not all devices will be able to use 5GHz, so it only pays to have it if you have devices that benefit from having 5GHz WiFi radios).

But do some of the Wireless Diagnostic checking, now that you know to hold the "Option" key when opening the WiFi menu.  No sense throwing out working equipment just because it is old.

Thanks for the "hold the option key" tip.  Maybe it was mentioned previously and I missed it but YEAH I now have the diagnostics option on my menu.  Thx.

As far as the wifi device goes, if I opted to go to a standard modem (same as the one I already have minus wifi capability) my ISP provides, with as many devices as I have, I'm told "it could bottle neck" all the devices and render internet access to "dial-up" speeds.  Is this the tech talking thru his arss or is it factual?

As far as the wifi device goes, if I opted to go to a standard modem (same as the one I already have minus wifi capability) my ISP provides, with as many devices as I have, I'm told "it could bottle neck" all the devices and render internet access to "dial-up" speeds.  Is this the tech talking thru his arss or is it factual?

If this WiFi router is provided by your broadband ISP, then tell them you want a modern newer unit.  Especially if they are charging you a rental fee each month.  A 10 year old unit is more than paid off, plus out of date.

As for talking out their ...

Yes.  It think they are.

You pay for 'N' megabits/second from your ISP.  The modem only approach is suppose to deliver that to an Ethernet port which you can then redistribute through your own WiFi router.  If the ISP also provides the router/WiFi, it should going to be the same as you providing your own router.

But if it is no extra cost to you for your ISP to provide a modern 2.4GHz and 5GHz dual radios with all the current WiFi features such as WPA2 encryption, then let them do it.  But if they are not willing to do this, or are going to jack up your monthly rental fee, then you should be able to provide your own home router and have them just provide a broadband modem that gives you an Ethernet port that you connect where you connect your own WiFi router's WAN port.

You should be able to use any WiFi router you want.  But if you do decide to buy your own, get dual radio 2.4GHz and 5GHz radios (this should be the normal situation, but when 5GHz first came out, many early routers would make you choose between using 2.4GHz or 5GHz, and if you had multiple devices, and some, like phones, only had 2.4GHz radios, you were stuck using only 2.4GHz, so get a unit with 2 radios).

I would NOT spend anything extra to get 802.11ac support (the next generation WiFi protocols), as generally that equipment will make you pay top dollar, and you will most likely not have any devices capable of using 802.11ac for awhile.  And when you do have devices that can use 802.11ac, the prices of WiFi routers that support it will be much cheaper (and the developers will have had more time to work out the bugs).

Today 802.11b, 802.11g, 802.11n WiFi protocols should be normal and maybe 802.11a, but you will most likely just be using 802.11g and 802.11n, the others are less likely to be used, and in this case it will be your devices that choose, you router just needs to provide them.  The 802.11ac will only been the newer Macs and PC, and maybe in a year or 2 some handheld devices may start to see low powered 802.11ac chips, but I'm not holding my breath.

result from my networ scan.  Are the RSSI and the Noise within acceptable levels?

I thought to include a capture of the performance graph.  Does this seem right to you?  Shouldn't these lines be.. I don't know.. straighter?

By the way, thank you so much for the help thus far.

If my ISP refuses to upgrade the WiFi Modem, given the wide assortment of devices, is an Airport Router a good idea (given my Apple TV) or should I look for another brand that may be friendlier for Blackberry, Android (3 versions), Windows (also 3 versions)? Would a router better serve intercommunication and file sharing, within my home network, without affecting the internet bandwidth that other devices may use while on the internet?

Technically you should be able to get your own modem or modem/wifi. If you are in the US, then your ISP is suppose to allow you to purchase your own from a store, such as Best Buy. Then return your ISP's modem and you no longer have to pay a rental fee.

They hey will tell you "but sir, we will be able to exchange the modem if it breaks." Key word in that sentance is IF. These modems hardly break down, if they do it'll be 10 years out of date. Besides, $8 per month times 120 (10 years) is $960 in rental fees. A good modem from the store cost less than $100.

I personally purchased the Zoom 5341J modem and an Apple Airport Extreeme. This set up allows me to upgrade my wifi router separately from the modem.

KOT

The first thing I wonder about is the protocols being offered by your router.  It is ONLY showing support for 802.11n.  Notice how your neighbors are offering 'b', 'g', and 'n' support. Your router should also be offering at least 'g' to go with your 'n' support.  Sometimes 'b' comes along with allowing 'g' and 'n', just because that is how the router vendor setup up the configuration buttons.

The RSSI and Noise numbers look OK.

Minor nit, in that for 2.4GHz frequencies, you want 5 channels between conflicting routers.  This is more important when living in apartments (or the neighbors are very close to each other (duplexes or house separation of only a few feet), but also more difficult because of the density of apartments.

The reason for 2.4GHz 5 channel separation is that each 2.4GHz channels uses 5 channels of bandwidth.  So channel 1 uses channels -1, 0, 1, 2, 3, channel 6 uses channels 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and channel 11 uses channels 9, 10, 11, 12, 13.

Now in your case you are set to channel 5 (using channels 3, 4, 5, 6, 7), so you and your neighbors using channel 1 are conflicting on channel 3.  Unless your neighbors are up close and personal, this is not a problem as the signal strength from their router will be very weak on channel 3 so it should not be a problem.  Which is why I said it was a minor nit.

Again, I question why your router is not offering 802.11g support.

Also your router is not offering any 5GHz support.  Assuming you have some newer devices which have 5GHz support, this would reduce the congestion on on your 2.4GHz channel.  It would also allow those devices that support 5GHz to do device to device transfer via your router faster (home file sharing that does not involve the internet, for example)

As far as a replacement router, if you are going to be doing a lot of device to device data transfers (file sharing, backups between devices in your house, music/video streaming from a storage device to a device in the house, then you want a router with good performance (not all low cost routers use a processor that can move a lot of data from one port to another, so you may need to pay more).  I would use Google to search for router comparisons and performance numbers, if this is important to you.  I know that Apple's Airport Extreme WiFi routers are on the higher end of performance (while also extracting a higher, if not the highest, end of the price as well ).  There are other quality home routers that provide dual radios, and very good performance, so some Google searching will be helpful.

Again, if your ISP will upgrade your home router with a dual 2.4GHz and 5GHz radios, for no cost and no extra monthly fees (like zero monthly fees), then start there and see how that goes.  If they are going to charge for just swapping out the unit, and hit you with monthly rental fees, then take KingOfTypos' advice and buy your own.

1st, if you can get your existing router to work better with the Apple devices, and that is the least expensive, start there, and plan for future improvements (I personally do not like spending other people's money, and the large number of devices you have listed, implies you have lots of family members to support, so money is not something other people should be spending for you, as your family members are perfectly capable of doing that for you as it is ).

A quick thing to try (sometimes it works, most time it does nothing different).  In your Mac's System Preferences -> Network -> Advanced -> TCP/IP -> DHCP Client ID: abcdefghijk  Give your Mac a simple DHCP Client ID.  Nothing fancy.  No special characters, no spaces.  Just letters and numbers.  This sometimes convinces a router to keep giving the same IP address and not to exhaust DHCP assigned IP addresses before leases run out.  You can do the same for iOS devcies via Settings -> Wi-Fi -> button at the far right of your selected network -> Client ID.  It should not hurt anything, and you never know, it might actually help.

Seeing how Bob saw the channel 5 and I over saw it. You might want to get that changed to 1, 6 or 11. As that snap shot that you showed us, is just that, snap shot. Meaning there maybe other WiFi devices that it couldn't see when you pressed the scan button. So there maybe devices that are over lapping, as Bob mentioned, just not shown in your snap shot.

Like he said, get your wifi router on the proper channel and see what happens. You'll have to gain access to your routers set up page. Typically the information will be located on the router/modem itself. What webpage to go to, user name and password. From there, there should be an area with Wireless control.

KOT

KinOfTypos, I do not think the channel 5 is a big deal in basic.woodworks' situation.  The scan does not show anyone else using channel 6, but it does show users on 1 and 11.  And since the overlap is only out at the edge of a bell curve of signal strength and those neighbors are not that strong a signal, I do not thing channel 5 is a big deal.

Yes, ideal in basic.woodworks' situation would be channel 6, but I do not think it is the root of the problem.

the "Princess" network (from previous capture) is ~ as the crow flies ~ within 25' from my modem. Another is about 50' the others range from 60' to 150' (give or take).  The reason for channel 5 is that, according to my ISP phone tech, it offered the least interference.

Looking into its settings, I found that this modem does support 5GHz however my older laptop is limited to the 11 channels.  It does not detect the modem when I switch out of 2.4GHz channels.

When speaking of dual radios, does this imply the type I have, which is "either/or" or does it support both simultaneously? Does 5GHz offer better stability for multiple devices? (I do apologize for my ignorance but my memory is failing me these days.) Would it stop kicking me off the network?

I know nothing of VPNs (how they really work nor setup) but, if 5GHz is better and some of my devices are unable to see the modem on that range, would a vpn setup allow me to connect devices thru one that can, bypassing the modem and accessing the web this way?

(on a side note, I find it humorous that I get notifications for all replies to the post but only my own entries come back with "helpful answer" and "correct answer" click options)

I don't know if this is "the new thing" or if it's my own browser that's affected but man words throughout these posts are now hyperlinks to ads.

That's weird that your wifi router is able to do 2.4 and 5.0, but only one at a time.

Your ISP install may not know how the wifi channel system works. I too was like him and programed my wifi router for my remote control to a channel that wasn't being used. Several times a day it would not talk to the base station. Now that I changed it to a channel that other wifi devices are using in my area, it only fails once or twice a day.

KOT

color me "demanding" but isn't once too much?  In my case, I have unlimited data transfer with my ISP and I do take advantage.  Seed and sync going on all the time.  I sometimes won't know when transmission has been cut off and can create major backlogs that can take days to recoup from.

If all works as it should (as I pay for) their should be no interruptions.  I think.

basic.woodworks wrote:

Looking into its settings, I found that this modem does support 5GHz however my older laptop is limited to the 11 channels.  It does not detect the modem when I switch out of 2.4GHz channels.

 

When speaking of dual radios, does this imply the type I have, which is "either/or" or does it support both simultaneously?

It would help a lot to know specifically which model Motorola Surfboard modem you have. There are several different older (which I gather you have one of) & current models with built-in WiFi radios. From what I can tell from a less than exhaustive search, the older models probably do not have simultaneous 5 & 2.4 GHz capabilities (so they are of the "either/or" type).

You obviously want dual band simultaneous WiFi capabilities so you can use any of your WiFi-equiped devices, so you can either get a current WiFi-enabled Surfboard or similar modem with that capability or buy a separate WiFi device to plug into your modem's ethernet port that does that. In the second case, you would normally want to turn off the modem's radio or get your cable company to provide you a modem with no radio (or buy a modem without a radio if you don't want to pay a rental fee for that).

Personally, since you have an Apple TV (& for other reasons) I would choose an Apple Airport Extreme (or possibly a Time Capsule). It isn't cheap but it has multiple antennas as well as simultaneous dual band operation, a dual band "guest" network, & several other features that less expensive devices lack.

Also keep in mind that regardless of the data rate your modem can support for Internet connections, your local wireless date rate will limit how much data you can move wirelessly between devices and/or the Internet. The exact data rate is dependent on many different factors (see for example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11n-2009#Data_rates for a chart of the possibilities) but something like the Airport Extreme, with its six antennas, simultaneous dual band operation, & 802.11ac support will maximize what you get, now & in the future. Plus, if you can connect one or more of your devices over a wired Ethernet connection, you will free up that much more wireless bandwidth for the others.

Thx for the post, R C-R.

Aside from my Apple TV, which is a year old, or so, and my new Samsung S4 phone, all my other device range from 2 1/2 to 8 years old.  My understanding from posts in this thread is that none may be 802.1ac capable.  They're all too old.  I'll assume the Apple Airport Extreme is backward compatible.  This is a home, after all, but with all our doodads, gadgets and gizmos, we may have up to 7 or 8 devices logged onto the network at any given time, sometimes less, sometimes more.  But only a handful my communicate with one or the other but never more than 2 or 3 are is use at the same time.  There is, currently, 3 people in our home (we have long term guests) and another will join back in a few weeks. All this being said, am I correct in understanding that an independant router would then be preferable to a wifi modem??

I used to use a router and the reason for my switching to the wifi modem was because my ISP kept blaming all their issues on my equipment.  It became a battle.  Once we started renting this WiFi Modem, they quickly found the source of the problem, which had nothing to do with my house, and resolve the issue.  Now, however, they claim all is working to peak efficiency minus line interference coming from their end.  Yet here I am getting kicked off my own home network several times per day.

My Motorola Surfboard model is SBG-6580  ~ wow!! are my eyes getting bad!  I had a hard time reading that. lol ~

I now have to leave my home for a while so I'll be unable to reply back to any further postings until probably tomorrow.

Tank you all for your input thus far!!