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Airport extreme won't work without router/switch

Hi all,

I'm a bit dumbfounded here and am hoping you can give me some answers. I've been having connectivity issues, specifically with random pages not loading while on wifi (all devices). They work just fine on my iPhone through LTE so I decided to try and isolate the issue to what hardware was causing my issues.


Previous setup:

Cisco DPQ3212 VOIP modem -> wired to legrand 10/100 router/switch (wired only) -> wired to Airport Extreme -> Airport Express (set to extend range).


I decided to try and eliminate the router/switch and start from scratch using only the modem and Extreme since that's the simplest setup.


I reset the Extreme to factory settings and unplugged it. Then I turned off the Modem (pulled power, etc.). I let both sit for a while to forget anything they may have been remembering. I then connected the ethernet, plugged in the modem, waited for it to get situated, and then plugged in the Extreme. Setup went fine, but I got 'no internet' and 'no dns' errors. Those went away randomly but the ip address I got was 169.xxx... so something was obviously was amiss.


I decided to go even simpler. Connected iMac directly to modem, reset the modem and voila, I had working internet. Thinking I did something wrong, I reset everything again and tried the Extreme setup. Same issue with connectivity. No internet and a bad IP. Tried the same thing with the Express and got the same errors, etc. Tried switching DHCP & Nat, Bridge Mode, you name it, nothing seemed to work. Airport utility shows green for the Airport but amber for the internet.


So I gave up. I connected the wired router/switch back up, reset everything, and it works again without a hiccup.


Summary:

1. Internet works when modem is connected directly to iMac.

2. Internet works fine connected wirelessly through Extreme (or Express) wired to the router/switch wired to modem.

3. Internet will NOT work when modem connected directly to Extreme or Express, despite factory resets.


So help me out... how can this possibly be happening????

Posted on Jul 10, 2014 1:21 PM

Reply
8 replies

Jul 10, 2014 4:11 PM in response to philsil

Are you using the latest extreme?? It does have issues with WAN port connections to some modems.


Otherwise tell us model and firmware?


What model express?


Can you get a plain switch or a crossover cable and test with that?


Just to be sure but you are using the WAN port on the Extreme?? Does the ethernet connectivity LED turn on?


If your modem has a battery.. don't forget to drop the battery out.. this tricks a lot of people.

Jul 14, 2014 2:50 PM in response to LaPastenague

Sorry for the super slow response. Shortly after posting the question my wife had a baby so I've been a bit preoccupied!


I'm using the following:


Airport Extreme: 5th Generation A1408 (version 7.6.4)

Airport Express: Current generation A1392 (version 7.6.4)

(if it matters) Legrand 10/100 4 port Router/Switch (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB8QFjAA&url =http%3A%2F%2Fwww.legrand.us%2F~%2Fmedia%2FE0E9D84B8E4E4F0EAF6DE2577C23AD7F.ashx &ei=x0rEU8aMHcnjoAT3qYCgBw&usg=AFQjCNGDfOvPP4Dd9k1Xx6FVDkNJi0DOrw&bvm=bv.7081008 1,d.cGU)


I don't have access to a plain switch or crossover cable unfortunately.


And yep, I'm using the WAN port. I get a green light every once in a while, but it really just doesn't work unless I add the other router back in there.


I have been taking the battery out and letting it rest for 30 mins each time.


FWIW, I'm doing all of this due to webpages not loading correctly. I did a trace route to discussions.apple.com and the results show something is obviously amiss. Here's what it says:


traceroute discussions.apple.com

traceroute to e4233.a.akamaiedge.net (184.84.157.54), 64 hops max, 52 byte packets

1 192.168.40.254 (192.168.40.254) 6.983 ms 1.503 ms 4.270 ms

2 * * *

3 24-234-16-181.ptp.lvcm.net (24.234.16.181) 18.210 ms 17.244 ms 15.563 ms

4 24-234-6-81.ptp.lvcm.net (24.234.6.81) 19.638 ms 22.093 ms 11.523 ms

5 24-234-6-254.ptp.lvcm.net (24.234.6.254) 12.806 ms 11.504 ms 10.715 ms

6 langbprj02-ae2.rd.la.cox.net (68.1.1.19) 35.497 ms 30.201 ms 29.679 ms

7 216.156.65.201.ptr.us.xo.net (216.156.65.201) 37.353 ms

216.156.65.25.ptr.us.xo.net (216.156.65.25) 21.546 ms 21.418 ms

8 * * *

9 * * *

10 * * *

11 * * *

12 * * *

13 * * *

14 * * *

15 * * *

16 * * *

17 * * *

18 * * *

19 * * *

20 * * *

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24 * * *

25 * * *

26 * * *

27 * * *

28 * * *

29 * * *

30 * * *

31 * * *

32 * * *

33 * * *

34 * * *

35 * * *

36 * * *

37 * * *

38 * * *

39 * * *

40 * * *

41 * * *


I gave up at this point since there's a clear issue.


Thanks in advance for the help!

Jul 14, 2014 5:28 PM in response to philsil

philsil wrote:


Sorry for the super slow response. Shortly after posting the question my wife had a baby so I've been a bit preoccupied!



Congrats.. and blessings on your family.


I would not take the failure of the traceroute to work seriously... It doesn't work for me either but I can directly ping the site.. I think you will find a ping does work. So here is mine.


Miniray:~ Ray$ traceroute 184.84.157.54

traceroute to 184.84.157.54 (184.84.157.54), 64 hops max, 52 byte packets

1 192.168.2.254 (192.168.2.254) 1.057 ms 4.126 ms 1.101 ms

2 adsl01.mel01.eftel.com (203.123.68.32) 21.049 ms 21.353 ms 20.877 ms

3 tge0-0-0-303.core0.mel.dft.com.au (203.123.69.105) 22.832 ms 23.344 ms 22.574 ms

4 ve420.er01.mel01.eftel.com (14.137.114.25) 21.577 ms 27.179 ms 21.035 ms

5 eth2-1.bdr01.syd02.eftel.com (202.62.143.121) 33.826 ms 33.178 ms 98.658 ms

6 vl202-ge-0-0-6.vpls193.sjcbsr01j480.m2.com.au (202.62.144.233) 444.357 ms 205.755 ms 207.904 ms

7 xe-5-3-0.sjc12.ip4.gtt.net (173.241.128.13) 428.390 ms 405.426 ms 310.338 ms

8 206.111.6.221.ptr.us.xo.net (206.111.6.221) 303.909 ms 402.582 ms 219.805 ms

9 207.88.14.233.ptr.us.xo.net (207.88.14.233) 394.206 ms 307.087 ms 223.362 ms

10 207.88.13.81.ptr.us.xo.net (207.88.13.81) 217.834 ms 240.791 ms 213.691 ms

11 * * *

12 * * *

13 * * *

14 * * *

15 * * *

^C

Miniray:~ Ray$ ping 184.84.157.54

PING 184.84.157.54 (184.84.157.54): 56 data bytes

64 bytes from 184.84.157.54: icmp_seq=0 ttl=47 time=430.521 ms

64 bytes from 184.84.157.54: icmp_seq=1 ttl=47 time=219.605 ms

64 bytes from 184.84.157.54: icmp_seq=2 ttl=47 time=217.033 ms

64 bytes from 184.84.157.54: icmp_seq=3 ttl=47 time=217.323 ms

64 bytes from 184.84.157.54: icmp_seq=4 ttl=47 time=222.402 ms

^C

--- 184.84.157.54 ping statistics ---

6 packets transmitted, 5 packets received, 16.7% packet loss

round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 217.033/261.377/430.521/84.594 ms


It is much better to use a google DNS to test for traceroute. either 8.8.8.8 or 8.8.4.4

eg

Miniray:~ Ray$ traceroute 8.8.4.4

traceroute to 8.8.4.4 (8.8.4.4), 64 hops max, 52 byte packets

1 192.168.2.254 (192.168.2.254) 9.241 ms 0.804 ms 0.833 ms

2 adsl01.mel01.eftel.com (203.123.68.32) 20.309 ms 20.944 ms 20.112 ms

3 tge0-0-0-302.core0.mel.dft.com.au (203.123.68.25) 23.583 ms 21.261 ms 19.568 ms

4 ve420.er01.mel01.eftel.com (14.137.114.25) 23.863 ms 22.225 ms 22.524 ms

5 eth2-1.bdr01.syd02.eftel.com (202.62.143.121) 62.458 ms 33.104 ms 65.286 ms

6 as15169.ve223-vpls138.bdr01.syd02.eftel.com (202.62.154.118) 33.540 ms 35.445 ms 34.838 ms

7 72.14.237.21 (72.14.237.21) 36.291 ms 33.910 ms 33.737 ms

8 google-public-dns-b.google.com (8.8.4.4) 34.896 ms 39.576 ms 32.359 ms


What is good is I can see your first hop is to the router.


Although what I would like to see is the second hop as well since that failed.


Above is just for info.

Do you have a windows PC or a Mac with OS earlier than Mavericks?? I would like you to use v5.6 utility instead of v6 as it allows some more adjustments.


Looking at the pdf for the old router.. thanks for that link as I doubt I could have found it.. I want you to jump into the setup ..

Please turn off the dhcp server. figure 9 on page 10 (13 pdf) do not distribute IP to computers.


Reset the AE to factory..


Then I want you to plug the cable modem into a LAN port of the legrand.. say port 1. And I want you to plug the WAN port of the AE into port 2.

Power down the whole lot.. then start up after 20min or so.. cable modem.. wait a few min.. legrand router switch.. wait a few min.. then Airport Extreme.


Then check the AE gets the public IP on the WAN interface.


If you can get a computer to run 5.6 utility as I have another way around the problem.

Jul 15, 2014 11:58 AM in response to LaPastenague

Thanks for the congrats! It's been a crazy but great few days.


Thanks for the reassurance on the trace route. Stinks that that's not going to be the way to figure out why my pages aren't loading!


I'd like to remove the switch/router from the equation if possible since I don't need it. I initially planned to run ethernet to a few rooms but realized that it really wasn't necessary and would like to simplify so there are less things that can break down. Is there a way we can look into the issue without the router/switch being involved?


I may be able to get one of my 2006 MacBooks running. I believe I never 'upgraded' that one up to mavericks.

Jul 15, 2014 2:04 PM in response to philsil

OK.. I agree it is good idea to get rid of the Legrand.. but the test I suggested might be useful all the same.


If you have an older OS.. install the 5.6 utility (if it is Lion or ML).


How to load 5.6 into later Lion & ML


1. Download 5.6 for Lion.

http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1482

Click to open the dmg but do not attempt to install the pkg.. it won't work anyway.

Leave the package open on the desktop so you can see the file. AirportUtility56.pkg



2. Download and install unpkg.

http://www.timdoug.com/unpkg/



Run unpkg on the desktop.. If your Mac refuses to run the software, because it wasn’t downloaded from the Apple store, go to security in preferences and allow other software to work.. this is limitation of trade methinks. You can set back later if you like.


Now drag the AirPortUtility56.pkg file over to unpkg.. and it will create a new directory of the same name on the desktop.. in finder, open the new directory, drill down.. applications, utilities .. there lo and behold is Airport utility 5.6 .. drag it to your main utilities directory or just run it from current location.



You cannot uninstall version 6 (now 6.3 if you updated) so don't try.. and you cannot or should not run them both at the same time.. although I have had no problems when doing so.

Using the v6 utility.. I would first of all recommend you downgrade the firmware on the TC. The express may not matter but I would do it as well just for completeness.. use 7.6.1

Hold down option key whilst you click the version. Then you will see the list of available firmware.. select the one you want.. very easy.

User uploaded file

Just doing this might fix it.. worth testing.

Now from v5.6 utility you can set the WAN port on the TC to what you want. I recommend you try 100mbit full duplex. If that fails work down to half duplex then 10mbps full duplex.

User uploaded file

A crossover ethernet cable might also help this.. not really supposed to but it could. They are cheap and readily available still. You can order online from ebay etc for less than $10 delivered. If the above still fails.. then test with the legrand as a switch. If that works then the crossover could well work.

Jul 17, 2014 6:12 PM in response to LaPastenague

Finally had some time to try and do all of these steps. Unfortunately, nothing worked. In fact, the changes made it so I couldn't get things working at all. BUT I did manage to solve the issue and would love to get some feedback as to what may be (may have been?) going on.


After trying all of the steps, nothing worked. I decided I needed to get some sort of access so I decided to try and hook up my iMac through the router/switch. That worked, so I realized that at least the modem and router/switch had to be working somewhat. I then disconnected the iMac and connected that cord to my express. Miraculously, it worked (made no sense since it didn't work with the extreme in another room hooked up the same way, but why argue?). I then eliminated the switch and told the Express to work with DHCP and NAT instead of bridge mode. That worked and so I finally had a network that didn't rely on the router/switch.


I then replaced the Express with the Extreme. After resetting and setting up a different network, it worked too! So now I had the Extreme in a different room than I wanted it. I pulled the power to everything then moved the Extreme back to the room I had it in originally. I didn't change any settings. When everything turned back on, I was able to get an IP address but it still didn't work. Brought it back downstairs, hooked it up and it worked just fine again!


SOOO, it works! But any idea why it would work in one room and not the other? I wanted to blame the cable in the wall, but it worked with the router/switch this am! is it possible for the cable to be able to handle traffic but not the info needed for router function?


Thanks for the help either way! I couldn't have gotten it figured out without your help.

Jul 17, 2014 6:23 PM in response to philsil

Cables can be badly installed and work ok on one product and fail on another. You need to get a cable contractor who has special test equipment (uber expensive so many hire it).. and they will do actual bandwidth and noise testing on the line. Cable installation is harder than simply drag the cable through the wall.. The old units and the express might well work because they are 10/100.. the extreme could fail because it is gigabit. That is the whole reason I have been encouraging you to put a switch between the TC and modem.. to simply force the speed to the correct or appropriate value for poor line.

Airport extreme won't work without router/switch

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