converting sd to hd

Question

Level 1

10 points

converting sd to hd

My camera is a JVC DV-500, 800 lines of resolution. It outputs video as sd via firewire to FCP. When authored on a DVD (after compressing to MPEG2) it looks terrible compared to what I see on my 600 line sony monitor (when playing out via firewire from FCP to a Sony HR monitor (not hd)). In otherwords, the native video is hd in a way.
My question is, can FCP capture the sd video and up convert it to true 780p quality? or at least close to 780p?
Thanks

G5, Mac OS X (10.3.9)

Posted on Sep 17, 2006 11:36 AM

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Answer 1

Shane Ross

Level 8

43,110 points

Sep 17, 2006 12:04 PM in response to mhnapple

780p? What's that?

HD is 720p and 1080i (and 1080p). SD is 486, DV 480.

And your camera is SD...not HD in any way. How are you looking at our image on the monitor via firewire? Routing thru what?

Shane

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Answer 2

Sep 17, 2006 12:56 PM in response to mhnapple

I think you may be confusing lines of horizontal resolution with pixel dimensions.

While the camera section of the GY-DV500 is rated at 800 lines of horizontal resolution, the record section of the camcorder converts the analog signal from the CCDs into DV25 video which is compressed 5:1 before recording to tape. DV25 (DV/DVCam/DVCPro) is capable of reproducing around 510 lines of horizontal resolution regardless of how many lines the camera section can produce. So while a camera head with 800 lines of horizontal resolution is a good thing, the DV format cuts it to about 510.

Shane is 100% correct about SD and HD. The GY-DV500 is SD only. Period. FCP cannot 'up convert' your footage. Red Giant does have a plugin that will convert footage in SD pixel dimensions to HD pixel dimensions - but don't expect HD quality. In fact, you can expect to see some artifacting.

http://www.redgiantsoftware.com/instanthd.html

-DH

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Answer 3

Sep 17, 2006 5:05 PM in response to David Harbsmeier

Just to piggyback off of David, Digital Anarchy makes a plugin for FCP that will upconvert SD footage to HD. But like David said, while it makes it the pixel dimensions of HD it will not have the clarity of HD.

http://digitalanarchy.com/resizer/resizer_main.html

The only place I would respectfully disagree with David is that FCP can technically "upconvert" footage. When you scale your clip you are merely applying an algorithm to make it a larger scale and interpolate the data (similar to any of these plugins). While FCP does not do it that well it can technically do it. Double click on any clip in the timeline to load it into the viewer and select the motion tab. There you can scale and adjust the aspect ratio (distort) of your media.

For what you are looking for - a better picture - you will need to shoot with a camera that can ingest a better picture.

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Answer 4

mhnapple Author

Level 1

10 points

Sep 17, 2006 8:24 PM in response to Shane Ross

Shane,
I have a Sony DSR 20 DV deck. I have Sound and video in real time continous out to the deck. The DSR 20 continually converts anything to anything. While I have DV from my Mac G5 going the deck, my Sony 8" HR monitor shows the video out from the composite out from the DSR 20. The quality as seen on the monitor from FCP is superb in quality, MUCH better than standard video than you see on a normal TV broadcast.
BUT, when comprssed to mpg2, the quality is now worse than the BEST VHS I have ever seen, even if I set bit rate at 6mps or higher.

I thought that 800 lines was vertical resolution, not just horizontal and would convert to 780p quite well.

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Answer 5

Shane Ross

Level 8

43,110 points

Sep 17, 2006 8:54 PM in response to mhnapple

The DSR 20 continually converts anything to anything.

That is an incorrect statement. Your DSR converts any Standard Def analogue signal that is being fed to it to DV, and outputting the DV timeline out to your monitor.

The quality as seen on the monitor from FCP is superb in quality, MUCH better than standard video than you see on a normal TV broadcast.

This is because it is a direct feed from your computer to monitor. No noise from the cable satellite system (which compresses the signal MPEG-2) or over the airwaves.

And VHS is the worse quality tape format in existance.

There is no such thing as 780p.

Shane

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Answer 6

Sep 17, 2006 8:55 PM in response to mhnapple

The DSR 20 continually converts anything to anything<<</div>

Not true at all. I have 3 DSR-20 VTRs, and while they will convert composite or Y/C (S-Video) analog to DV25 (via Firewire) and DV25 to analog composite or Y/C, it will NOT convert to analog component, SDI or any other signal type than the ones I mentioned. Basically it only converts two different analog signals types to DV25 and back. That's it.

Why your DVD-Video (MPEG-2) quality is so low, I have no idea. I've been using the same cameras and decks as you for several years and have never produced a DVD that "looked worse than VHS." In fact, aside from the typical MPEG-2 compression problems (fast motion on reds and posterization during fades), the DVDs I've been producing with this gear look great. Granted, the lenses I have on both of my GY-DV500s cost more than the cameras themselves.

I thought that 800 lines was vertical resolution, not just horizontal and would convert to 780p quite well.<<</div>

I think you're still confusing LINES OF RESOLUTION with PIXEL RESOLUTION (dimension). 800 lines is a measurement of horizontal resolution - 780 is a measurement of pixel resolution. They are two distinctly different types of measurement.

-DH

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Answer 7

Sep 17, 2006 8:58 PM in response to Shane Ross

No noise from the cable satellite system (which compresses the signal MPEG-2) or over the airwaves.<<</div>

Lest we forget the fact that the TV signal is modulated.

VHS is the worse quality tape format in existance<<</div>

Very true with the exception of Fischer Price's "camcorder" for kids that recorded the video signal in black and white onto standard audio cassettes. 😉

-DH

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Answer 8

Sep 17, 2006 9:01 PM in response to Studio006

The only place I would respectfully disagree with David is that FCP can technically "upconvert" footage<<</div>

True. FCP can make the image larger, but quality goes out the window over about 104%.

-DH

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Answer 9

Sep 18, 2006 9:02 AM in response to David Harbsmeier

Here's a thought as to how the DVD quality is coming out so poorly.

Could it be that the OP has created himself a nice little 780p sequence, exported that to a 780p QT, COMPRESSED it in Compressor as a 780p m2v, and then imported that into DVDSP, which would then recompress as a DVD compliant m2v?

Little bit o' double compression going on here?

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Answer 10

Sep 18, 2006 9:08 AM in response to thrillcat editorial

Hmmmmm ... sounds like a distinct possibility.

-DH

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Answer 11

mhnapple Author

Level 1

10 points

Sep 18, 2006 7:05 PM in response to David Harbsmeier

David,
Sorry for the confusion about "anything to anything". I meant that the "anything" was any input or output existing on the DSR 20. The DSR 20 does not have componet in or out.

I know that this is a FCP forum, but just high can I go with the bit rate when compressing to MPEG 2 and still be compatible with most DVD players, 9 mbs+??. I have been using approx 6mbs.

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Answer 12

Sep 18, 2006 7:44 PM in response to mhnapple

I never go higher than a 6.8 bit rate - some players will choke on higher. I do not have any quality issues ... and typically less than 1 incompatible disc per 500 burned.

I'm encoding 'Using QuickTime Conversion' (QT 6.5.2), authoring in DVD-SP 2 and burning with Toast 6 [(DVD-ROM (UDF)] onto Taiyo Yuden silver inkjet printable or Verbatim white inkjet printable media.

Looks great on normal TVs or projection, even on commercial cinema screens. And looks darned good via broadcast (cable insertion). But like most SD material, doesn't hold up too well when viewed on a LCD HD set that automatically tries to stretch the program to fit the screen ... unless you're sitting far enough away.

-DH

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Answer 13

mhnapple Author

Level 1

10 points

Sep 19, 2006 8:57 AM in response to David Harbsmeier

David,
That what I am doing, using quick time conversion, 2 pass, VBR at about 5mps. I am viewing the dvdsp 3 authored DVD on a 42" plasma 16:9 monitor which stretches the video to fit. It doesnt look anywhere good as a lot of other TV programming that I see on this monitor.
I think its just the bit rate thats my issue. Since the native video , uncompressed looks great, is there a way to author on a blue ray disk with a bit rate of 10-12 mbs or higher, or no compression?
Mike

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Answer 14

Zebulun

Level 5

6,749 points

Sep 19, 2006 9:06 AM in response to mhnapple

several key issues here:

your compressing dv25 video to mpeg2. i'll wager that the tv programming you see didn't originate as dv25 and wasn't compressed until transmission to your cable spigot.

you're watching mpeg2 compressed 4:3 dv25 video on a plasma widescreen that is taking that stomped on signal and expanding it to 16:9.

this is a less than desireable viewing situation.

as for authoring a blue ray disk? you need a blue ray burner and those are quite expensive at the moment.

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