My iTunes library and metadata/ID3 tags issue

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My iTunes library and metadata/ID3 tags issue

Since 2010, iTunes is the only media player I use to play music. My library consists of music purchased from the iTunes Store, CD rips and stuff many artists these days release as freebies on the internet to promote a new album. Also, M4A and MP3 are the only formats I use so far.

Since iTunes, I really got into editing my library's metadata tags by hand, in order to create a custom archive which serves my preferences best. I should mention that besides iTunes being the only software I use to play my music library, it's also the only software I use to edit their metadata. Also, before iTunes – when my library was on different media players – I never bothered with editing them.

A few days ago, I found how a lot of people in forums complain about the way iTunes edits and stores metadata. So, I experimented and moved a few of my songs to other media players after editing their tags within iTunes. And indeed the tags and/or artwork were often displayed messed up and/or incorrect, some times partially and some times completely.

Some people were referring to the version of the ID3 tags being the issue, while others suggested using the "convert ID3 tags" feature. I myself am a little bit confused. "Converting the ID3 tags" wasn't available for my M4A files and once I performed it for my MP3's I didn't know which setting I should apply or what version to choose. I chose one version randomly but I'm not sure what happened.

My goal is to make my music library able to play and display my custom metadata on the majority of the popular media players. I hope that firstly this is possible and that secondly it won't be a solution which requires me going through every single song individually.

I really hope that all those years work on my library wasn't for nothing.

I'm using a MacBook running Snow Leopard 10.6.8 and my iTunes version is 10.7

While my music library is more important that my iTunes version, I do like iTunes 10 more than 11.

I apologize for any grammar mistakes, since English is not my first language. Thank you all for your time and any suggestion is welcome.

MacBook, Mac OS X (10.6.8)

Posted on Aug 19, 2014 11:54 AM

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Answer 1

turingtest2

Level 10

278,097 points

Aug 19, 2014 3:56 PM in response to itsjamesd

A possible cause of problems is multiple embedded tags. iTunes works best with a single ID3v2.3 tag. Some software creates both an ID3v1.0 and IDv2.x tag, and the ID3 specification allows for multiple tags supporting different languages. With multiple tags it is not certain which iTunes reads or which it updates, and any device or third party software may choose differently. If the metadata is correct in iTunes you can use Convert ID3 Tags... None several times, then Convert ID3 Tags... v2.3. The process removes any embedded art but otherwise preserves the data that iTunes knows.

tt2

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Answer 2

itsjamesd Author

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5 points

Aug 19, 2014 10:32 PM in response to turingtest2

Hello turingtest2 and thank you for your reply.

In response to "a possible cause of problems is multiple embedded tags", what exactly does that mean and how can I avoid doing it in the future?

If I use Convert ID3 Tags>None before converting to v2.3 as you suggested, how many times is "several times" and why do I have to do it more than once? Also, what are your thoughts on 'v2.3 vs. v2.4'?

In response to "the process removes any embedded art but otherwise preserves the data that iTunes knows". All fields excluding cover art remain the same? Does that mean that I will have to start from scratch and apply new cover art individually for each album? That would be too time consuming given the fact that I embed custom art.

Also, what happens with my M4A files' metadata? ID3 tags are only used for MP3's, right?

Thank you so much for your patience.

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Answer 3

turingtest2

Level 10

278,097 points

Aug 20, 2014 2:00 AM in response to itsjamesd

itsjamesd wrote:

Hello turingtest2 and thank you for your reply.

In response to "a possible cause of problems is multiple embedded tags", what exactly does that mean and how can I avoid doing it in the future?

Anything ripped with iTunes should get a single tag. If multiple tags in some of your older mp3 rips are the cause of the problems when you try to access the files elsewhere then you should apply the suggested remedy selectively, not to the whole library indiscriminately. Once fixed you shouldn't have the problem again unless you use different ripping software. If so check the options to ensure you generate a single ID3v2.3 tag. Downloads from elsewhere are pot luck.

If I use Convert ID3 Tags>None before converting to v2.3 as you suggested, how many times is "several times" and why do I have to do it more than once? Also, what are your thoughts on 'v2.3 vs. v2.4'?

Several is at least two, but more could be needed if a file has both v1 and v2 tags in multiple languages. If there are two tags, the first conversion to none should remove the first one, and the second conversion the second. Experiment, And stick to v2.3.

In response to "the process removes any embedded art but otherwise preserves the data that iTunes knows". All fields excluding cover art remain the same? Does that mean that I will have to start from scratch and apply new cover art individually for each album? That would be too time consuming given the fact that I embed custom art.

Yes, everything but artwork is held in the iTunes database and is restored with the final Convert ID3 Tags... v2.3. Use Doug's scripts SaveAlbumArtJpeg before you start and RestoreArtworkFromAlbumFolder afterwards to save and the restore your existing artwork.

Also, what happens with my M4A files' metadata? ID3 tags are only used for MP3's, right?

Yes, m4a/aac files have a different tag mechanism. Multiple ID3 tags is just one possible issue that you might have. You said:

So, I experimented and moved a few of my songs to other media players after editing their tags within iTunes. And indeed the tags and/or artwork were often displayed messed up and/or incorrect, some times partially and some times completely.

It might be worth going into some more detail about exactly what differences you noticed. iTunes can automatically associate (instead of embedding) artwork when it can match the album in the store which could be why some tracks didn't get artwork.

tt2

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Answer 4

itsjamesd Author

Level 1

5 points

Aug 20, 2014 4:29 AM in response to turingtest2

"Anything ripped with iTunes should get a single tag." & "Several is at least two, but more could be needed if a file has both v1 and v2 tags in multiple languages."

Well, I have to admit I didn't know that a file could have more than 2 tags. It's rather strange because when I click 'Get Info', I have never noticed more than one version on the 'ID3 Tag' field of the 'Summary' window. But maybe it's just me. Maybe I just have never noticed it.

"Use Doug's scripts SaveAlbumArtJpeg before you start and RestoreArtworkFromAlbumFolder afterwards to save and the restore your existing artwork."

Is it possible to save the image without compression or scaling? I mean saving the image as it is, with lossless quality. Maybe a PNG script instead of a JPEG one?

"m4a/aac files have a different tag mechanism"

Any tips? Do I need to do something similar to the 'Convert ID3 Tags' feature for MP3's so they won't be 'glitchy' on non-iTunes media players?

"It might be worth going into some more detail about exactly what differences you noticed. iTunes can automatically associate (instead of embedding) artwork when it can match the album in the store which could be why some tracks didn't get artwork."

Sure! One major fail was for an album that a friend bought and ripped in 192 kbps MP3's on his PC about a year ago. He then gave me the files with an external hard drive. Now my friend has a very specific way of organizing and tagging his music which is impossible to go unnoticeable but it doesn't serve my preferences, so I obviously retagged the files completely by hand. Part of the files I experimented with was this album. And guess what, when I played them on WMP for Windows, the tags were being displayed the way my friend gave them to me a year ago. It was as if I never edited them whatsoever. On my iTunes, though, they were being displayed perfectly the way I made them.

Besides this one, there was also an album which was displaying a completely wrong artwork while being played on VLC for Windows. I did make sure I hadn't accidentally embedded two images on those files.

I reaaally don't know what the heck is up… 😕

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Answer 5

turingtest2

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278,097 points

Aug 20, 2014 7:02 AM in response to itsjamesd

I can't find a reference offhand for the idea of parallel tags in different languages, but I'm sure I read it somewhere. I did spot this which supports my prejudice against v2.4 - from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ID3#ID3v2:

Windows Explorer and Windows Media Player cannot handle ID3v2.4 tags in any version, up to and including Windows 8 / Windows Media Player 12. Windows can understand ID3v2 up to and including version 2.3.^[12]^[13]

Doug's script SaveAlbumArt should save out the current artwork in its current format without recompressing it.

WMP from Windows 7 onwards should handle AAC files. I'm not aware that anything needs to be done otherwise.

Probably best not to mention your friend's sharing his purchase with you, not really in keeping with the TOU, but that looks like a classic case of multiple tags to me. The stale data has persisted somewhere in the the original file.

tt2

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Answer 6

itsjamesd Author

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5 points

Aug 20, 2014 7:56 AM in response to turingtest2

"Probably best not to mention your friend's sharing his purchase with you, not really in keeping with the TOU, but that looks like a classic case of multiple tags to me. The stale data has persisted somewhere in the the original file."

I apologize for that, it definitely wasn't intentional.

Just an hour ago, I reimported that album back on my iTunes and used the "Convert ID3 Tags" feature to "None" as you suggested. This time I actually got a loading bar, implying that some action was being executed. Because when I first used it, I chose "Convert to v2.3/4" and got nothing. No loading bar and no visible change on my tags. This time, however, after choosing "None", the metadata were reverted to the ones my friend applied, the very same ones I got when I played them on WMP. I executed "None" version once more, as you suggested, and then I finally converted to v2.3 but I'm still stuck with the same metadata. I can of course edit them to how I want but what happens if import them again to WMP?

I plan to do a mass "Convert ID3 Tags" to "None", then "None" once more and finally to "v2.3" for my entire music library. Now my album artwork is safe if I use the Doug's script you suggested. But what about the tags that will be erased and/or converted to unwanted ones such as my friend's album ones? Is there a way to back them up like the Doug's script for album art, then get to perform the ID3 tags conversion sequence described above, and after that is done, retrieve the actual metadata I want from this hypothetical backup?

I am beyond obliged for your help and patience tt2.

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Answer 7

turingtest2

Level 10

278,097 points

Aug 20, 2014 8:46 AM in response to itsjamesd

My personal experience has been that iTunes has remembered the details that I've already had in place once they are there, although I've usually used this trick when iTunes has refused to accept my changes which is another symptom of the multiple tags effect. For Windows I have a script that can be used to export and then reimport selected metadata which would be one approach to secure your data if you were running Windows. I'm not aware that Doug has anything similar. An alternative would be a dedicated tag editing tool, hopefully one that can at least see both v1 and v2 tags, or multiples if present, but I don't really have any suggestions for OS X.

tt2

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Answer 8

Limnos

Level 10

427,103 points

Aug 20, 2014 10:24 AM in response to turingtest2

I can think of several ways to save the data on a Mac, but some are fussy and will take time to describe.

There is a Dougscript which labels files from a delimited text file. One file per line, set delimiters. It labels file 1 using information on line 1, etc.

I don't know if there is a script which saves to files for the above script. The times I have used the above script I have had files from another source of labels.

There's also a script which copies tags from one track to another. Make a bunch of tag holder temporary files (1s silence). Copy the tags from the tracks needing cleaning to the holder files, strip the original tracks, then re-label using the holder files as tag source. Note, this doesn't do artwork. I have a version of the script which does but the artwork gets changed a bit in copying (maybe it's going from .png to .jpg).

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Answer 9

itsjamesd Author

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5 points

Aug 21, 2014 4:43 AM in response to Limnos

Thank you tt2 for all the help and of course you Limnos for joining the conversation.

About the 1s silence tracks method that Limnos suggested, if I understood correctly it means that I will have to go through every single song to copy and paste metadata manually, from the original song to the 1s one and then vice versa, right? This is not really a solution for me, as it would be too time consuming. But thanks anyways, will definitely try that if I need to for an album or two.

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