Need Unix Commands to diagnose Email Woes

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Level 1

136 points

Need Unix Commands to diagnose Email Woes

Help, anyone out there who can help me try to figure out why people are emailing my at my .Mac account and the emails are bouncing back to them.

I've tried troubleshooting with .Mac support but its months later and still no resolution. And emails sent to me are still bouncing back to the senders.

My setup? Mac mini, plugged directly into a cable modem. I only use the .Mac webmail, not the Mail app.

Any ideas or commands I can use to get a closer look at how this Mac handles incoming mail? Desperate for a solution... please, if anyone knows anything I can do from my end to use Terminal to at least look into how my Mac handles mail, please let me know... I am at a loss.

Mac OS X (10.4.7)

Posted on Sep 19, 2006 4:46 PM

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Answer 1

Camelot

Level 9

58,263 points

Sep 19, 2006 6:19 PM in response to fishin

It's unlikely that you can debug this from your end. Typically the bounceback happens at the server side - before it ever hits your machine, so there's nothing you can do on your machine that's going to make any difference since it doesn't see the messages in the first place.

You'd have more luck looking at the bounce message that the senders are getting. There's usually some clues there, including the specific server that's generating the bounce message, and often some reason.

For example, if the bounce message says something like 'mailbox full', it's pretty clear what you need to do. It's also possible that the mail is getting bounced for content (e.g. spam, infected with a virus, etc.), or that their IP address is flagged as a spam source even if this specific message isn't spam.

It's almost impossible to debug this further without seeing the bounce message and mail headers.

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Answer 2

Sep 19, 2006 6:20 PM in response to fishin

Hi--

There isn't really anything you can do. If the emails are being bounced, they're being bounced at the .Mac servers, and not at your computer.

In a case like that, about the only thing you can do is get the people who have bounced emails to send you the bounce messages at another email address, like Gmail or Yahoo, and then see if there's a common reason why they bounce. The actual bounce messages will be the most help if you can get them.

In a sense, because you're using the web mail, even the emails you do get aren't really hitting your computer.

charlie

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Answer 3

fishin Author

Level 1

136 points

Sep 19, 2006 6:53 PM in response to Charles Minow

Thank you both for your quick replies.

Getting my hands on these bounces - I know someone told me that it said something about "mailer daemon" returning the mail.

Will post headers as I collect them, am hoping they will provide some info.

Try and figure this puzzle out... if I send myself an email with .Mac using webmail and cc and blind cc myself... the blind cc never makes it if I am using an alias account. If I use my main user name, the blind cc makes it. Seems to point to some sort of flaw, but no one I have talked to can figure it out.

What I do know is that this receiving email problem affects almost everyone - my family's emails get rejected and doesn't arrive, sometimes my mails to them don't make it, emails from acquantances using a variety of different ISP's don't make it... one sender in particular received three bounces in a row over the course of a week or so after we had successfully exchanged a few emails, which truly makes no sense to me.

It's too varied and too consistent to be spam filter fodder... I did contemplate that. It's too many people and too many different ISPs. It's too consistent to be that.

Meanwhile, ads from Circuit City and newsletters chug on in to my inbox just fine. Odd to say the least! Seems like the automated mails go through fine, it's just the private emails that stick.

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Answer 4

fishin Author

Level 1

136 points

Sep 19, 2006 7:11 PM in response to fishin

aah!! I can't even login to webmail now, I get this message: Did not receive any response from application. It is possible that the application does not exist, or that the requested url is incorrect

But I clicked the login link at the .mac page, so I know it was correct.

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Answer 5

Sep 19, 2006 7:23 PM in response to fishin

Hi--

Getting my hands on these bounces - I know someone
told me that it said something about "mailer daemon"
returning the mail.

Yeah, the "mailer daemon" is the mail server, either at our friends' ISP or at .Mac, so that's why it's mentioned.

Will post headers as I collect them, am hoping they
will provide some info.

Sure, just make sure you strip out any identifying information, particularly names and email addresses.

one
sender in particular received three bounces in a row
over the course of a week or so after we had
successfully exchanged a few emails, which truly
makes no sense to me.

Unfortunately, the war against spam is always escalating, so what works today may or may not work tomorrow. So I'm sure Apple, like every other ISP is constantly adjusting their filters.

An example: I've been using a script for over a year and a half to send myself an email at 3:15 AM with some info from the logs on one of my computers. Sometimes there's nothing in the log, so I just get an empty email. But just in the last couple of weeks, when there's nothing from the log in the email, I don't receive the email at all. I check my sending logs and they're accepted by the .Mac servers, but they must get filtered out silently.

charlie

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Answer 6

Sep 19, 2006 7:32 PM in response to fishin

aah!! I can't even login to webmail now, I get this
message: Did not receive any response from
application. It is possible that the application does
not exist, or that the requested url is incorrect

But I clicked the login link at the .mac page, so I
know it was correct.

Hmm. That sounds like a server problem, like the server itself can't find something. They're using an application server called WebObjects for the .Mac web mail and it must not be able to find some file it's looking for.

Clear your browser's cache and try again. If you're using Safari, look in the "Safari" menu for an item called "Clear Cache".

charlie

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Answer 7

etresoft

Level 9

56,290 points

Sep 20, 2006 6:37 AM in response to fishin

What ISP/Servers are those people using? A very common problem is that the anti-spam cops will put an entire mail server on an e-mail blacklist and then any ISPs that subscribe to that particular blacklist will reject all e-mails originating from that server.

Sometimes the headers will give an indication that this is happening - sometimes. There is no fix for it. The current e-mail architecture is just toasted and can't be fixed. I suspect it will be replaced when the anti-net-neutrality legislation gets passed. Then, you will probably have to pay postage on each e-mail. Big e-mail companies will get discounts. These will include .mac and spammers, of course.

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Answer 8

fishin Author

Level 1

136 points

Sep 20, 2006 10:35 AM in response to Charles Minow

Charles,

I now have mail headers that people have received when they are trying to email me.. this is in their bounce notices.

Anyone out there can decipher what this means???

This is a warning message only.
Your message remains in the server queue,
the server will try to send it again.
You should not try to resend your message now.

Message delivery to (myaddress@mac.com) delayed
SMTP module(domain mac.com) reports:
smtp-mx6.mac.com: No SMTP prompt at the host

Why is Dot Mac telling them that there is no smtp prompt at the host? What does this mean???

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Answer 9

etresoft

Level 9

56,290 points

Sep 20, 2006 10:49 AM in response to fishin

It means .mac is sickly today. This only means that the mail is being delayed. The sending server will keep trying and it will probably go through eventually. If it gives up, it will send a message to the sender saying exactly that.

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Answer 10

fishin Author

Level 1

136 points

Sep 20, 2006 10:54 AM in response to etresoft

they tried to send this yesterday... yes, eventually they'll get a bounce notice saying it's undeliverable. That's what happened the previous three times they tried to email me over the last few weeks.

So... I'm just not going to get email then on my .mac account until it somehow rights itself???? And how will it do that?

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Answer 11

Sep 20, 2006 10:43 PM in response to fishin

they tried to send this yesterday... yes, eventually
they'll get a bounce notice saying it's
undeliverable. That's what happened the previous
three times they tried to email me over the last few
weeks.

So... I'm just not going to get email then on my .mac
account until it somehow rights itself???? And how
will it do that?

Hmm. I'd suggest to your friends that they contact their ISP and see what's going on. They should give them the delay messages and bounce messages as well. While it may be a problem with Apple's server, it could also be a problem with the other ISP's server having a problem talking to Apple's server. For example, perhaps the .Mac server is busy and the other ISP is not waiting long enough for Apple's server to reply. Or maybe the other ISP is giving up too easily once it gets one delay message.

For what it's worth (which is not much, considering it's 12 hours or more later, and definitely not from any of the same machines as your friends), I just connected (via telnet)to that same host at Apple as in the delay message you posted. I got all the prompts right away and successfully sent myself an email, which was delivered right away to my mailbox. But you'd have to be able to do that from the other ISP's mail server for that to be a valid test...

charlie

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