XBHS1997

Q: Power Macintosh 4400/200 (7220) – No video output

Hi guys

 

In my collection, I've got a "mutant mac", a Power Macintosh 4400/200 and I'd like to bring it back to life again!

The owner wanted to throw it away, so I got it (with mouse and keyboard) and the same day, I also saved a boxed Power Mac G4 AGP 350 Mhz from being recycled...

 

Well, the problem: No video output at all! As I don't have any old Apple CRTs (yet ;–)   ), I tried 5 other CRTs with a DB-15 to VGA adapter (tried all possible resolutions). The CRTs lights don't even get green when I connect it to the 4400.

But I think that it still boots (start up gong, hard drive seems to be working). I've done PRAM-reset several times...

 

So:

1. Adapter dead?

2. VRAM dead?

3. PRAM battery dead? But that wouldn't affect the graphics, I guess...

 

Where would you start?

 

Thx a lot!

Nicolas (from Switzerland)

Power Macintosh, Mac OS 8.6 or Earlier

Posted on Sep 6, 2014 9:02 AM

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Q: Power Macintosh 4400/200 (7220) – No video output

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  • by XBHS1997,

    XBHS1997 XBHS1997 Sep 11, 2014 12:18 PM in response to XBHS1997
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Sep 11, 2014 12:18 PM in response to XBHS1997

    I forgot:

     

    No L2 Cache Card installed!

     

    And thanks for the details about the ATI Rage 128! :-)

     

     

    Nicolas

  • by Jeff,

    Jeff Jeff Sep 12, 2014 12:06 AM in response to XBHS1997
    Level 6 (11,559 points)
    Sep 12, 2014 12:06 AM in response to XBHS1997

    I assume that you read about the reasons for the 4400's design, with its use of "PC" type components (an IDE hard drive and an ATAPI optical drive).  Reduction of manufacturing cost was the driving force behind this.  Other Performa and Power Macs of that era that shipped with an IDE hard drive had a SCSI optical drive, until the beige G3s were introduced in late 1997.  If I wanted to restore a Performa/Power Mac of that vintage (with a very similar motherboard as the 4400), I'd opt for the 6400 or 6500 mini-tower.  The processors are the same: 603/180 MHz & 603e/200 MHz for the 6400s and the slightly faster 603e/(225, 250, 275, and 300) MHz for the 6500s.  I believe that the 4400 used the same L2 cache card as the 6400s/6500s, meaning that the cards were keyed (slotted) alike.  Because of this, the 4400 could use the same (third-party) G3 processor upgrade card, designed for the L2 cache clot.  If you can finally get that 4400 running, you might check ebay for a used/inexpensive one.  When they were still being manufactured by a number of companies (Sonnet and Newer Technology), they were an expensive upgrade.  The 4400 used the lower voltage EDO memory DIMMs.  The Apple (made by ATI) Rage 128 PCI graphics card that shipped with the B&W G3s is available here.  Ignore the part about the lack of a DVD decoder card.  The seller has another identical card with the decoder, but your 4400 doesn't have the processing horsepower required to handle it.  That decoder was designed to work in conjunction with the Apple DVD Player software 1.x, but the minimum processor requirement was supposed to be a 300 MHz G3.  It's a non-issue for the 603e/200 MHz processor in the 4400.  You mentioned that when you press the power actuator button on the front of the computer, it starts up and then immediately shuts down.  Does it do this, when you press the keyboard's power button in the upper right corner - assuming that your keyboard has one?  I'm wondering if the micro switch on the motherboard (that the actuator presses against) is damaged.  Internally, it contains a very thin metallic convex-shaped contact, that flexes inward against the rear contact when the power button's actuator presses against it.  The convex shape makes the contact naturally pop back out, when pressure is released.  If this internal contact breaks from the repeated flexing of years of usage, you could experience something strange like you've described, because it's supposed to be a momentary contact switch, unless pressed in long enough for a forced shutdown.  Otherwise, you may have to search online for the 4400's power supply pin-outs and check the leads with a voltmeter.

  • by Jeff,

    Jeff Jeff Sep 12, 2014 12:19 AM in response to Jeff
    Level 6 (11,559 points)
    Sep 12, 2014 12:19 AM in response to Jeff

    If you're interested, this Macworld article reports on performance testing of various G3 upgrade cards designed for the L2 Cache slot in those old Performa and Power Macs, including the 4400.

  • by XBHS1997,

    XBHS1997 XBHS1997 Sep 12, 2014 3:04 AM in response to XBHS1997
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Sep 12, 2014 3:04 AM in response to XBHS1997

    Thanks for your answer Jeff! I'll maybe look for those upgrades when it will be working like it should, why not

    My father's soldering iron seems to be broken, so I can't really work on this computer without it... But I still have other macs to repair...

    I'm quite sure that a new PRAM-battery is the problem's solution.

     

    No, I mean that it starts like it should (1 press on the internal power button or the keyboard). BUT when is seems to be running and I then press the internal power button again, it shuts down. Have not tried that with the keyboard power button yet. I don't remember how you force a shutdown on OS 8 / 9. By pressing the button for ~5 secondes just like on never macs, or does one short press already force it to shut down? In fact, I'm asking this because I'm wondering if this is normal for a 100% working 4400. Or: if my 4400 does that (shutdown after 1 short press when running), does that mean that it hasn't booted (can't boot)?

     

    Thanks!

    Nicolas

  • by XBHS1997,

    XBHS1997 XBHS1997 Sep 12, 2014 3:09 AM in response to XBHS1997
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Sep 12, 2014 3:09 AM in response to XBHS1997

    What makes me quite sure about the battery: http://lowendmac.com/1996/power-mac-4400-and-7220/

     

    Just found that, I'll start reading it now. Along with Allan's documents and the manual, very nice to have! http://tim.id.au/laptops/apple/legacy/powermac_4400.pdf

     

    Nicolas

  • by XBHS1997,

    XBHS1997 XBHS1997 Sep 13, 2014 2:37 PM in response to XBHS1997
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Sep 13, 2014 2:37 PM in response to XBHS1997

    Hi guys!

     

    Good and bad news!

    I've soldered 3 aa batteries together (made 4.68V) and reassembled the 4400. Well, no professional quality soldering, but it seems to work.

    Bad news: Still no graphics...

    Good: Just like before, I can hear the chime and the HD spinning (CR-CRRRR-CRR). You know what I mean. ^^

    I've always shut it down via forced shutdown (not really possible to do it properly, of course).

    BUT today, after the new PRAM-battery, I heard a "beep"! Then, I hit the power button on the keyboard and it beeped again! Then, I hit enter, and it shut down!

    I've booted an iMac G3 with OS 8.6 and done the same.

    Now, I think it booted, at least.

     

    So please forget my previous question (2 answers before).

     

    Now:

    If it really booted, is it sure that the RAM works like it should? And the VRAM?

    I think next I'll get a 10-switch adapter like most of you seem to have. I'm not really confident in my 6-switch adapter...

     

    Thanks!

    Nicolas

  • by Jeff,

    Jeff Jeff Sep 13, 2014 10:17 PM in response to XBHS1997
    Level 6 (11,559 points)
    Sep 13, 2014 10:17 PM in response to XBHS1997

    Hearing one beep on startup indicates that no memory is installed.  If you removed the RAM to inspect for corrosion, did you snap it back in so it's fully-seated in the slot?  If the RAM is completely incompatible, it may not be recognized as being installed in the slot and generate the same single beep.

  • by XBHS1997,

    XBHS1997 XBHS1997 Sep 15, 2014 1:58 PM in response to XBHS1997
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Sep 15, 2014 1:58 PM in response to XBHS1997

    Strange... By iMac G3 makes exactly the same sounds when I do the same things , and it recognizes it's RAM...

    Well, I'll try it again this week-end...

     

    Thanks!

    Nicolas

  • by Jeff,

    Jeff Jeff Sep 16, 2014 1:56 AM in response to XBHS1997
    Level 6 (11,559 points)
    Sep 16, 2014 1:56 AM in response to XBHS1997

    Just for clarification, when you referred to the sound as a "beep," were you referring to the normal startup tone?

  • by XBHS1997,

    XBHS1997 XBHS1997 Sep 16, 2014 9:32 AM in response to Jeff
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Sep 16, 2014 9:32 AM in response to Jeff

    No no, not the startup tone (I can hear it), it's really a beep! I'll try to make a video this week-end!

     

    Thanks!

    Nicolas

  • by XBHS1997,

    XBHS1997 XBHS1997 Oct 15, 2014 2:06 PM in response to XBHS1997
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 15, 2014 2:06 PM in response to XBHS1997

    Hi again! :–)

     

    Finally I found some time again for my Macs!

     

    Well: Problem solved!

    And guess what it was? This f***ing 6-switch adapter!

    I got two old Apple CRTs and lots of cables some days ago (and lots of old Macs saved from trash, some in their box ^^). Just connected it, and BAM, the screen went light grey, and then MAC OS 9.1! :–) It boots really slowly compared to other OS 9 macs, but it boots!

     

    SO, when you have similar problems:

    – Don't try a f***ing 6-switch adapter, at least not on the 4400, or get an old Apple CRT with cable.

    – I've heard the start chime ONLY after I had changed the PRAM-battery, and before that, it didn't react to the keyboard. So: the 4400 NEEDS a good PRAM to boot!

     

    So thanks again all of you for all the help! :–)

    Now I can start working on my iMac G3 with software problems.

     

    Cheers,

    Nicolas

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